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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Hey Oldbrit; The .44 Trapper.
      #193849 - 16/11/11 06:26 AM

Read your quote below and thought you might find these of interest.

Anybody else have a Trapper?

How about some pix if you do.

Quote:

Oh how I miss my 4" Model 25 in 45 Long Colt. I had to hand it in when the British government decided that, as an English citizen, I was no longer fit to own it. This was after the Dunblane tragedy. These days I can't have a 6 shot revolver but I can have my 10 shot Trapper carbine in the same calibre.

















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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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DarylS
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Re: Hey Oldbrit; The .44 Trapper. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #193855 - 16/11/11 08:41 AM

I had a Trapper 16" bl. in .45 Colt. I found RP brass to be the strongest and best suited to the feeding throat of the Trapper. The others, including Ww and Fed were not as strong in the web.

I ran .44 mag pressures (as Per Ross Seyfried's replacement loads), which gave 1,584fps with 300gr. HP and solids form my carbine. Accuracy was sub 2" at 100 yards, but you had to hold onto the rifle with both hands as in offhand shooting. If not, it would jump and make vertical groups.

I shot 2 elk with that load, which incidently, duplicates the .45/90 BP factory black powder load.

I also developed loads using a now discontinued W680 powder, perhaps still available in some gun shops as H116(re-labled W680). Some Hodgdon employees do not know of this, while others do- depends on whom you talk to. Hodgdon bought the remaining WW680 stock(several tons) before buying WW powders, and re-canned and labeled it H116.

My data developed the same case web expansion as the .44 mag. presure loads, but beat the previous W296 loads by 200fps & used 340gr. bullets while doing it. That put that little 16" .45 Colt in the same ball park as the Kynock .450 #2 Musket ctg.

Terrific little round, even with just W296 Duplication laods. Remember RP brass due to the tough feeding ramp. WW brass is of no use, Federal only slightly better. RP was the best. I do not know about Starlane or Starline.

I should have kept that rifle, but will one day buy another, but with a 20" bl.

I kept my data.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Oldbrit
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Reged: 04/04/10
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Re: Hey Oldbrit; The .44 Trapper. [Re: DarylS]
      #193859 - 16/11/11 09:27 AM

I feel rather humbled by 9.3 as the only thing I've ever used my Trapper for is to punch holes in paper. Being a keen handloader I've tried everything in it from a round ball to a sized down Lee 45/70 bullet weighing 340 grs. They all shoot amazingly well although my favourite is a 185 gr obsolete Lyman bullet for the 45 ACP (452389) over 11 grs of Unique which shoots tiny groups. The hottest I've gone is a Saeco 300 gr SWC over 21 grs of H110 but that one is hard on the gun.

In my Model 25 I used to shoot an old 240 gr Lee full WC over Green Dot and shot some good scores with it. The WC bullet took up a lot of the case capacity and it shot well at 800 fps over moderate loads.

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DarylS
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Re: Hey Oldbrit; The .44 Trapper. [Re: Oldbrit]
      #193861 - 16/11/11 10:28 AM

Quote:

The hottest I've gone is a Saeco 300 gr SWC over 21 grs of H110 but that one is hard on the gun.




Would you qualify that, please. How is it hard on the gun?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Hey Oldbrit; The .44 Trapper. [Re: DarylS]
      #193872 - 16/11/11 01:32 PM

Oldbrit;

The Trapper is a heck of a target gun, too. Fun as heck to shoot.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Oldbrit
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Posts: 381
Loc: UK
Re: Hey Oldbrit; The .44 Trapper. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #193935 - 17/11/11 02:56 AM

Quote:

Quote:

The hottest I've gone is a Saeco 300 gr SWC over 21 grs of H110 but that one is hard on the gun.




Would you qualify that, please. How is it hard on the gun?



If mine was a hunting gun I'd qualify that load as "carry a lot and shoot a little". I shot about 50 rounds(IIRC) and the forward magazine/barrel clamp screw worked loose without my noticing. The magazine started moving at each shot, eventually shearing the screw that goes up through the magazine end plug and burring over the groove on the magazine tube. This cost me a new magazine tube and screw; not a lot of money I know but it was inconvenient. I'm quite happy to shoulder the responsibility for not keeping the screws tight but the heavy recoil certainly didn't help. Pressure wise, there appeared to be no problems and I've seen hotter loads suggested but there's just no reason for me to accelerate wear on the gun.

300 grain bullets over a modest charge of Unique at about 900 fps are great fun to shoot as they give you a meaningful shove in the shoulder without being hard on the gun or shooter. The 185 gr bullet I mentioned before is probably the one I shoot most as recoil is slight and accuracy very good. As most of my shooting with this gun is over not more than 50 yards, trajectory isn't a real problem.

Whilst cases have a slight but noticeable bulge just ahead of the case web, due to the rather sloppy rear end of the chamber on the Winchester (I've seen this written up in reviews of the rifle), case life is very good. This is despite the fact that I size cases with a 45 ACP sizer and use a corresponding neck expander. Cast bullets are sized .454" although I have quite happily shot commercial bullets at .451" (I once picked up a sizeable number of the 185 gr jacketed SWC target bullets for the 45 ACP at a very reasonable price). This is simply due to the fact that I have a morbid fear of bullets being pushed back into the case during feeding, a throwback to my IPSC days shooting 45 ACP. It's probably not justified, particulalry as I crimp with one of the Lee Factory Crimp Dies, but it makes me feel better.

Edited by Oldbrit (17/11/11 03:02 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: Hey Oldbrit; The .44 Trapper. [Re: Oldbrit]
      #193937 - 17/11/11 03:57 AM

tks - I was wondering what happened.

Like I said, I'd shot 500 or more of the heavier loads without any problems. I locktighted all the screws before shooting it as I'd had loosening screws on my .375 Big Bore with loads very much sub-max.

Each to his own on loads. I loved shooting 300's at 1,584 and on up to 340's at 1,740fps until I ran out of that particular powder. Those loads were very carefully developed using new brass each time to eliminate any case hardening from ruining the pressure measurments. When I found them safe, I thoroughly enjoyed shooting it, a lot.

A hunting buddy wanted it for his wife for moose, so away it went.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Oldbrit
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Loc: UK
Re: Hey Oldbrit; The .44 Trapper. [Re: DarylS]
      #193948 - 17/11/11 06:00 AM

Daryl,

Just after I read your last posting I opened the latest copy of Handloader and read the article on the Lipsey’s Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Long Colt (& 45 ACP). In that article Brian Pearce is showing 21.5 grs of H110 with a Lyman 454629 318 gr bullet as being within 45 Colt +P pressures i.e. 23,000 psi. That would make my load of 21 grs with a 300 gr bullet quite conservative considering the strength of the action. Considering that all I’m doing is punching paper I’ve never tried to go further but for your purposes I can see why you want all the wallop you can get. It’s a pity I never chronographed my load. However, I checked my notes and the 185 gr bullet over 11 grs of Unique is roughly averaging 1,350 fps out of the Trapper over my Chrony.

Like 9.3, I really enjoy my Trapper.

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Hey Oldbrit; The .44 Trapper. [Re: Oldbrit]
      #193949 - 17/11/11 06:24 AM

I use one load in both revolver and Trapper, not a heavy load, and in fact it is the old balloon head case .44 Special load Bob Hagel and Elmer used in their 1950 Targets; 18 gr 2400 under a 240 grain JHP.

I killed a bear with that load in my 29-9, a revolver that about duplicates the configuration of the old 1926 Target ordered by Wolf and Klar.

In the Trapper I get better velocity {about 200 fps more} and recoil is, of course, nil. I've killed a lot of woods trash and livestock with that little gun. Very handy with the folding stock, also.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Hey Oldbrit; The .44 Trapper. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #193951 - 17/11/11 06:43 AM

Rod - what's the length, folded - 30"?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Hey Oldbrit; The .44 Trapper. [Re: DarylS]
      #193952 - 17/11/11 07:02 AM

I don't recall exactly, but our legal short limit is 26" {or it must be registered as a Short Barrel Rifle} and it measures in excess of that, 27 1/2 or something.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Hey Oldbrit; The .44 Trapper. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #193954 - 17/11/11 08:03 AM

26" is the same here - except most game wardens & many policemen/women don't know that.

Most would actually freek if they saw someone packing that rifle, folded, of course - what a HOOT!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Hey Oldbrit; The .44 Trapper. [Re: DarylS]
      #193955 - 17/11/11 08:05 AM

Oh, I love Springers and Brittanies.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Hey Oldbrit; The .44 Trapper. [Re: DarylS]
      #193956 - 17/11/11 08:06 AM

Good sized coyotes - too bad they didn't weigh 100pounds and more.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Hey Oldbrit; The .44 Trapper. [Re: DarylS]
      #193959 - 17/11/11 08:16 AM

Maybe I'll get to introduce that "Paratrooper 94" to a wolf or two this winter.

Can trap and snare them here, now.

Alas I do not have a snowmobile to get in to where they are most of the time in the winter. It is a little farther than I can comfortably ski or snowshoe breaking trail. I can get the yotes because they are down a bit lower and closer to roads and home.

We are working to get some rules changed for our county now, and if that works out it might be a bit easier for me to get at them, longer trap-check times, etc. We'll see.

The little folder makes for a very handy and easy to pack package.

Compared to a Marlin 1895;



Grouse hunting again with my son's dog;



Steep hikes clearing trails you hardly know its there;





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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by 9.3x57 (17/11/11 09:18 AM)

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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
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Re: Hey Oldbrit; The .44 Trapper. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #194262 - 20/11/11 10:45 PM


I enjoy your pictures!. The leveraction trapper models are true petits in the leveraction community. I know in the US barrels most have 16" to have status as a rifle. Every once awhile a trappercarbine does show up here in Europe with 14" barrel in .44WCF or a .45acp converted. I have thought of a few time to get one of these. I see you truely can fulfill the need for trappermodel..:LOL.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
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Re: Hey Oldbrit; The .44 Trapper. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #194303 - 21/11/11 06:13 AM

Quote:


I enjoy your pictures!. The leveraction trapper models are true petits in the leveraction community. I know in the US barrels most have 16" to have status as a rifle. Every once awhile a trappercarbine does show up here in Europe with 14" barrel in .44WCF or a .45acp converted. I have thought of a few time to get one of these. I see you truely can fulfill the need for trappermodel..:LOL.




In the States, as here in Canada, the length restriction is 26" overall. Here in Canada, they must also be obviously meant to be fired by the use of both hands. Thus, any barrel length on a bolt or lever gun is OK as long as it is 26" or longer, overall. I would suggest a short barrel and no forend might lead to charges, but if having a forearm, the barrel could be 12" or 10" and still be OK, as long as the gun is overall 26" or longer and also meant to be fired with 2 hands.

I suggest that larger bore sizes barrels can be shortened more than smaller bores and still maintain good killing power. I suspect a 10" or 12" .30/30 would be pretty poor as the velocity drops off below what makes the bullets expand and create damage to tissue however a 12" .44mag, .44/40 or .45 Colt on the other hand, will still make a wonderful killing weapon on most game, expecially from a M94 Winchester or Marlin.

Better yet, a .45 Casull or .460 S&W on a Big Bore 94 action or Marlin 94 that's capable of being loaded to 44,000psi. would really work well, in the bush - like right around here.

Hmm- I have a doner (1978) .375 Big Bore that's not doing much right now. By itself, at 20", it sure worked well on a couple moose.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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