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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Muzzleloaders & Blackpowder
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303British
.224 member


Reged: 20/12/10
Posts: 24
Loc: Katherine, NT Australia
Something to attempt
      #188990 - 31/08/11 09:08 PM

Ok before I lay this out there know this:

1: I am an armourer
2: I am a Fitter and Turner
3: I know this may all be for nothing when what I build blows to pieces on one of my prooving loads

Now then with those facts out of the way I have a nice length of steam pipe at work and have recently been bitten by the BP bug. I am contemplating building from scratch a ML shotgun/smoothbore out of said steam pipe. Its nominal bore is 1" (25.40mm) and I can't see any real problems with doing the build. I have a CVA .45 and man that thing is simple, I'll basically copy its trigger mech with a few minor alterations. Mainly instead of #11 caps I'll use small rifle primers held in a cut down .218 bee case. Suggestions?

--------------------
Arte et Marte

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Altamaha
.333 member


Reged: 29/12/08
Posts: 376
Loc: Washington State USA
Re: Something to attempt [Re: 303British]
      #189562 - 10/09/11 08:14 AM

Here is what you should do:

Research the chamber pressures of m/l black powder guns. Might surprise you what the averages are.

Find out what schedule the "steam pipe" is. In the US, it is likely schedule 40. Then research the allowable pressures for the pipe.

Then compare the two. My first guess without taking a look at my references is the black powder pressures will be at least 10 times the allowable pressure for the pipe.

This is how pipe bombs are made.

If your steam pipe has no identifying numbers on it, meaning it was cut from a longer length that had the proper identification, then you must assume it is common water pipe and will likely burst at 300 or 400 psi or so.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Something to attempt [Re: Altamaha]
      #189563 - 10/09/11 08:21 AM


"This is how pipe bombs are made."

I like that.

It does depend partly on what you fill a pipe bomb with
AND what you cap it with. HE (as in PE) shatters the pipe totally.


BUT, what you are saying is I think correct.

I personally would use the low pressure pipe, no QC at all in it's manufacture.

.

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Tom_H
.333 member


Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY
Re: Something to attempt [Re: 500Nitro]
      #189616 - 11/09/11 01:02 AM

Well...
Somewhere, I have a copy of a Dale Storey(sp) book on shooting muzzleloading rifles and he performs an interesting test.
He takes a length of copper pipe(for plumbing - not sure if it was regular water pipe or the heavier ga. for heating)
He places the end in an empty soup can and fills it with molten lead to hold it in place.
He drilled a flash hole and used cannon fuse. It must have been 5/8 or so because he loaded it with a reasonable charge (80gr+) of BP and either a 54cal conical or PRB,
Boom.
Fired perfectly w/o any measurable changes in the pipe. IIRC he did this a few times.
I think that he was pretty surprised.
I am not recommending anything as thats why we have barrelmakers. Spending the extra money on a blank certainly beats the big "?" of just how many firing cycles that barrel will last before it doesn't. Just interresting to see how some metals handle stress.

Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

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poprivit
.333 member


Reged: 09/04/07
Posts: 398
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
Re: Something to attempt [Re: Tom_H]
      #189618 - 11/09/11 02:17 AM

I'm a 40 year member of the Plumber's Union

1. Water pipe is for water, not gunpowder!

2. If the copper pipe mentioned by Tom H was ACR (air conditioning, refrig.) or Type L it probably could stand a blast or two. However, pieces of copper pipe are very hard to dig out of your eye.

The water pipe isn't a problem with pieces in your eye, as they will penetrate a 2x4 stud quite easily. Just be sure to mention exactly what type of flowers you want.

If either type of metal was a viable alternative for gun barrel material, there'd be a lot of copper guns.

Yes, I know - brass cannon. Iron cannon - A hell of a lot of iron and brass turned from barrels to missiles during the fabrication of cannon from 1546 to 1900.

Yup, pipe bomb. Lots of them made with FFFg.

Plus, I've heard that a protest group in the USA - BATFE - takes a dim view of unregistered DDs. $25k and 5-10 years. Imagine there's a like group within 30km of your billybong.

Your call.

Is your widow - ahh, err, WIFE - pretty?

...and yes, you are a candidate for the local Australian Darwin Awards.

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Altamaha
.333 member


Reged: 29/12/08
Posts: 376
Loc: Washington State USA
Re: Something to attempt [Re: poprivit]
      #189622 - 11/09/11 05:18 AM

Quote:

Is your widow - ahh, err, WIFE - pretty?



Yea never thought of this. Photos?

Edited by Altamaha (11/09/11 05:19 AM)

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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Something to attempt [Re: Altamaha]
      #189745 - 12/09/11 02:07 AM

Use a gun barrel blank, not a pipe, not seamless and not any otherwise material that is called anything but a gun barrel.

Tensile stength does not tell the whole story - tensile strength is not shock loading strength which happens when powder burns.

Some materials will work harden themselves into brittle bombs that surprise and may kill you after many 'safe' shots have been fired.

Please don't do it.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Something to attempt [Re: DarylS]
      #189746 - 12/09/11 02:26 AM

303

Having just realised you are actually located in Aus, I'd also make sure that you have the correct licences for the manufacture of firearms, even IF a M/L is not classed as a Firearm (not sure on whether it is or not in your state).

And remember, these sites are monitored by the usual for any type of "questionable" activity. it might not be "questionable" in your eyes but it could be in there's.

I'm not being sensationalist, just realistic as to how intelligence / nefarious activity is gathered.

(I know that gun web sites and forums are mentioned in the national meetings of firearm registries as when the issue of "pre 1900, No commercial Ammunition available" was brought up, it was mentioned that ammo could be made because they listed the components.)

Edited by 500Nitro (12/09/11 02:30 AM)

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beleg2
.375 member


Reged: 15/08/07
Posts: 591
Loc: Bahía Blanca - Argentina
Re: Something to attempt [Re: 500Nitro]
      #189754 - 12/09/11 06:13 AM

Hi,
I do not want to open a can of worms but for what I have seen that seamless tube with thick walls can stand normal black powder charges.
My friend Saverio Bonazza made almost 1000 .50 rifles and pistols with seamless lubes.
No one fail, a couple bugle when double-charged and many of those rifles are shooting to this day.
I’m not promoting the use of seamless tubes I’m talking about facts I witness.

Thanks
Martin

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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Something to attempt [Re: beleg2]
      #192234 - 21/10/11 05:11 AM

.303 British - what are the outside dimensions of the 'pipe'?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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