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chapmen
.300 member

Reged: 26/02/10
Posts: 234
Loc: Middle of germany

Unknown stamp on Miller&Greiss Drilling
#188218 - 20/08/11 11:20 PM

Im just restoring an Drilling which is signed from Miller&Val.Greiss/München, proofed in 8-1908.
On the system( german: Basküle, whats the wright translation for this??????) i found the following stamp two times. Does someone know this stamp? Its not an Proofstamp, there are the normal german proofmarks of this time also. I think its the maker of the system or complete rifle, but who is it? Also i am looking for more info on Miller&Greiss like old paperheads, ads etc.

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some fine old guns from germany :
www.jagdwaffensammler.de

Edited by CptCurl (20/08/11 11:35 PM)

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Phillip
.300 member

Reged: 31/05/10
Posts: 174
Loc: North Carolina

Re: Unknown stamp on Miller&Greiss Drilling [Re: chapmen]
#188220 - 20/08/11 11:40 PM

Prehaps,the mark of the "actioner"??

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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.
-Winston Churchill

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chapmen
.300 member

Reged: 26/02/10
Posts: 234
Loc: Middle of germany

Re: Unknown stamp on Miller&Greiss Drilling [Re: Phillip]
#188221 - 20/08/11 11:46 PM

also possible, i dont know.

--------------------
some fine old guns from germany :
www.jagdwaffensammler.de

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ellenbr
.300 member

Reged: 25/08/07
Posts: 167
Loc: North Alabama

Re: Unknown stamp on Miller&Greiss Drilling [Re: chapmen]
#188235 - 21/08/11 04:24 AM

Mike:

Basküle seems to be interchangeable with lockup and/or action. If there are 2 stamps, then there were 2 separate efforts/tasks. I'd guess he was the action filer and possibly system maker. I doubt he completed the sporting weapon unless there is a similar mark on the tubeset. I don't know the mark. Considering the sporting weapon has a date stamp, I would assume that it passed thru the Zella Sankt Blasii - Mehlis proofhouse. This coupled with the conjecture that upon a quick glance it reminds me of the Max Hermsdorff stamp if the crown was replaced by an eagle/alder. In 1907 I've seen him listed as an Ironmonger/Eisenhandlung in Mehlis. This might give you some direction to search if Axel or Shotgun Charlie doesn't recognize the mark.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: Unknown stamp on Miller&Greiss Drilling [Re: ellenbr]
#188236 - 21/08/11 05:52 AM

Quote:

Mike:

Basküle seems to be interchangeable with lockup and/or action.

No, "Basküle" is the technical term for the action body only of a break-open gun.

This might give you some direction to search if Axel or Shotgun Charlie doesn't recognize the mark.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

As Raimey called upon us: I have not enough information to even start looking for an educated guess. All I know now, it is on a Drilling retailed by Miller & Greiss in Munich, but most likely made for them by the Suhl or Zella-Mehlis guntrade. What type of Drilling? Calibers? Where and when was it proofed? All this info is needed to narrow down the area and time span. Without photos of the gun's action area and of the proof- and other markings I will not even speculate about that stamp, as doing so is wild guessing only. I have learned this from experience by answering many such questions. Just a few days ago, someone asked about dating a rifle. As he referred to Jon Speed's Mauser books, I automatically assumed it to be a bolt-action rifle. As it turned out, it was a Suhl-made double rifle, proofed April 1937, according to the date stamp of the proofmarks. Or, another "German trademark" turned out to be on a Belgian gun only retailed by a German country gunshop.

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kamilaroi
.400 member

Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 1803
Loc: sydney, new south wales, Austr...

Re: Unknown stamp on Miller&Greiss Drilling [Re: kuduae]
#188249 - 21/08/11 12:22 PM

As it has a crown over what appears to be a stylised TH it's origin might its origin be Thuringia?

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chapmen
.300 member

Reged: 26/02/10
Posts: 234
Loc: Middle of germany

Re: Unknown stamp on Miller&Greiss Drilling [Re: kuduae]
#188267 - 21/08/11 08:31 PM

As i said, i am just restoring it , so only poor pics are possible.
Roux action, 9,3x72R- 16/65- 16/65, with second barrel from 1941 in 6,5x58R - 16/70 -16/70.
The stamp on the action is very uniqe, so i think someone could see it on other guns.

--------------------
some fine old guns from germany :
www.jagdwaffensammler.de

Edited by CptCurl (23/08/11 07:53 PM)

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kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: Unknown stamp on Miller&Greiss Drilling [Re: chapmen]
#188279 - 22/08/11 03:46 AM

As the original 1908 proofmarks also show a ledger number, 344, we know now the drilling was proofed and made in Zella-Mehlis, so the Suhl makers are out.
From the countless Zella-Mehlis gunmakers, Max Hermsdorf is not my favourite suspect. He was listed as a dealer in pistols and hunting equipment. His adress is the same as the "Adler-Waffenwerke", specialized pistolmakers.
As the stamp may be read as either "MH" or "TH" , I would look around among the countless Hengelhaupt's and Helfricht's active around WW1 in the Zella-Mehlis guntrade. If we read TH, it may stand for Traugott Helfricht at Forstgasse 9, who calls his business a "Gewehrfabrik" = gun factory, or Tuiskon Helfricht, Büchsenmacher. If you like to read an M, the possibilities are countless, as an M may stand either for a first name or simply for "Mehlis". Before WW1 Zella and Mehlis were still seperate towns.

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kamilaroi
.400 member

Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 1803
Loc: sydney, new south wales, Austr...

Re: Unknown stamp on Miller&Greiss Drilling [Re: kuduae]
#188291 - 22/08/11 10:42 AM

^ Thanks, I stand corrected.

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