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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns

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Smoke73
.300 member


Reged: 30/05/11
Posts: 164
Loc: Rocky Mtn. House Alberta
Re: Regulating a 12 bore [Re: DarylS]
      #201953 - 08/02/12 09:46 AM

I've now tried all type of wad combos and roll crimped with a press drill till I could see wads compressing and still not a good burn. I think I'll be sticking with the 4756

--------------------
Your not tired, you just think your tired, you don't even know what the hell tired is.- Garth Ahlstrom (Thanx Dad love ya)

"When one of them is born, their god says ' Go in peace.'
When one of us is born our Gods say "Go hunting."- J. Emmett Willie


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tinkerModerator
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Regulating a 12 bore [Re: Smoke73]
      #201961 - 08/02/12 12:57 PM

Burn Black -- lots of it!!




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Regulating a 12 bore [Re: tinker]
      #202023 - 09/02/12 03:33 AM

W.W. Greener lists 3 loads for the 12 bore - I assume for the 2 1/2" to 2 3/4" hulls. The 7 dram load fits well in the 2 3/4" with a roll crimp.

116gr., 150gr. and 191gr. - 4 1/4 drams, 5 1/2 drams and 7 drams.

The 3" hull used up to 9 drams = 245gr. and weighed in the 12 to 13 pound range, I think. Peter in Denmark has just such a double gun.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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tinkerModerator
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Regulating a 12 bore [Re: DarylS]
      #202028 - 09/02/12 04:07 AM

Sarg, from NZ has the big J&W Tolley mondo-charge 12bore rifle.
It's a beast and I'd love to own it.




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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Smoke73
.300 member


Reged: 30/05/11
Posts: 164
Loc: Rocky Mtn. House Alberta
Re: Regulating a 12 bore [Re: tinker]
      #205756 - 22/03/12 03:52 PM

Ok you got me. I had found it was shooting the ballistic products slugs ok but I started out for a roundball gun and that's what I'm going to get. Pulled both ribs last night, cleaned the tubes and have re soldered the ends of the tubes as close together as possible. I've loaded some .735 ahead of 150 grains of Goex. I'll see where I'm at tomorrow. Wish me luck.

--------------------
Your not tired, you just think your tired, you don't even know what the hell tired is.- Garth Ahlstrom (Thanx Dad love ya)

"When one of them is born, their god says ' Go in peace.'
When one of us is born our Gods say "Go hunting."- J. Emmett Willie


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tinkerModerator
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Regulating a 12 bore [Re: Smoke73]
      #205760 - 22/03/12 04:50 PM

Go on the Goex!
That load will sound nice.
I've run more with the 16bore and roundball.
At a certain point you transcend big plumes of smoke and end up with a ripping crack with a jet of fire and less smoke.
That's when the burn is really cooking.
Better have a good wad column...


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Smoke73
.300 member


Reged: 30/05/11
Posts: 164
Loc: Rocky Mtn. House Alberta
Re: Regulating a 12 bore [Re: tinker]
      #205776 - 23/03/12 01:42 AM

Really no room for a wad column. I could only fit in a hard card under the ball. I measured by volume with the wife's muzzleloader rigging. Maybe I should have weighed it out. Oh well that's the beauty of black. Hard to build to much pressure in a shotshell. Stay tuned.

--------------------
Your not tired, you just think your tired, you don't even know what the hell tired is.- Garth Ahlstrom (Thanx Dad love ya)

"When one of them is born, their god says ' Go in peace.'
When one of us is born our Gods say "Go hunting."- J. Emmett Willie


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Smoke73
.300 member


Reged: 30/05/11
Posts: 164
Loc: Rocky Mtn. House Alberta
Re: Regulating a 12 bore [Re: Smoke73]
      #205815 - 23/03/12 03:55 PM

Charge weighed in at 150.5 grains so volume measure is on. After barrels were soldered at ends I wrapped with a band clamp. Then used solder to build a bead on the clamp and decided to rip. Had to really try to keep vertical level with just a front bead (filed to a narrow blade). Horizontal was easy to pin however. At that it looks like the barrels now are shooting to there respective sides with a 3 1/2" spread (50 paces)with the 150 grains FFg Goex behind a .735 Roundball. Looks like I can get it here now playing with powder charge and need to add some weight to the barrels to simulate weight with proper ribs and sights installed.

As for the Black Powder experience it was fun. I laughed like hell the first time I pulled the trigger. It bellowed and barked and jumped out of my unready hands. Funny thing is the felt recoil on shoulder was more tolerable than many other heavy charges. Let me tell you, if you can get IMR4759 burning correctly Black is a walk in the park. I'm glad I decided to quit using 4759 before it shook my gun and my nerves to pieces. Stay tuned.

--------------------
Your not tired, you just think your tired, you don't even know what the hell tired is.- Garth Ahlstrom (Thanx Dad love ya)

"When one of them is born, their god says ' Go in peace.'
When one of us is born our Gods say "Go hunting."- J. Emmett Willie


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tinkerModerator
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Regulating a 12 bore [Re: Smoke73]
      #205817 - 23/03/12 04:15 PM

Black is where it's at.
It's easy as can be to load, ignite, and clean.

Get a chronograph in front of that thing and let us know how that load is running - I'd love to see the velocities and consistency.


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Smoke73
.300 member


Reged: 30/05/11
Posts: 164
Loc: Rocky Mtn. House Alberta
Re: Regulating a 12 bore [Re: tinker]
      #205839 - 23/03/12 11:38 PM

Yeah everything is easy except hanging on!!! I'll see what I can do about a chronograph as the last one ate a wad. I think once I get some weight on the barrels I can come close to regulation and loose some of that vertical jump in the recoil. It was pretty fun.

--------------------
Your not tired, you just think your tired, you don't even know what the hell tired is.- Garth Ahlstrom (Thanx Dad love ya)

"When one of them is born, their god says ' Go in peace.'
When one of us is born our Gods say "Go hunting."- J. Emmett Willie


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Smoke73
.300 member


Reged: 30/05/11
Posts: 164
Loc: Rocky Mtn. House Alberta
Re: Regulating a 12 bore [Re: Smoke73]
      #205919 - 25/03/12 05:21 AM

Some interesting info on Husqvarna Shotguns. Sweden never had proofing laws because they believed in the product of choice Husqvarna.

From research about the Husqvarna shotguns test program the following conclusion can be drawn:
Guns marked on the barrel "Special Steel" or “Niklstal” are intended for smokeless powder. This information came from the Husqvarna museum.
The proof mark on Husqvarna shotguns can be a small or large letter H with a crown. From this it cannot be concluded whether the weapon was proof-fired for nitro- or for black powder, only that the gun WAS proof-fired. Research into this marking continues.
Some facts:
Generally, the guns were fitted with steel barrels, but damascus barrels were delivered on demand as late as 1908.
Translation of the test program and quality control from the 1902 catalogue.
"When a barrel bursts, or the gun, for some other reason is damaged during shooting, the gun manufacturer, in most cases, gets the blame with the argument that the reason for the damage is use of bad quality materials, or manufacturing flaw. That such faults should exist on guns delivered from us, we consider that we have prevented, partly by using only best quality materials, and partly, and above all, by the most accurate inspections, and rigorous tests. I.e. the barrels on guns delivered from us have passed two firing tests. The first test, made when the barrel has been pretreated, is carried out with tripled black powder charge, and fivefold shot load. The second test, made when the gun is ready for delivery, is carried out with double powder charge and double shot load. If the barrels and the action has passed there tests, without in any way having been altered, they will not be damaged when using normal powder charges and shot loads, independent of the charge being black powder or suitable low smoke powder. Additionally, from each new set of barrel raw material, samples for test firing are taken. This test firing takes place in such a way that the barrel, drilled to cal. 16, and the outer diameter turned to a diameter that correspond to that of a typical 16 cal. gun, is charged with 14,25 grams of black powder and, initially, at the first shot, loaded with 85 grams of shots. The shot load i increased in such a way that, at the 24th firing, the shot load is 456 grams. For the 25th firing, the charge is increased to 19 grams. Firing continues, for each three firings, the charge is increased, for each firing the shot load is increased, until the barrel bursts. Generally, our barrels, made of Swedish steel, will hold a charge of 14.25 grams of powder, and a shot load of 400 grams. Barrels made of special steel will hold a charge of 23,75 grams of powder and 860 grams of shot load."


Top Lever shotguns
As concluded before, Husqvarna shotguns made after 1908 are designed for smokeless powder. The serial number at the end of 1908 was 55000.

--------------------
Your not tired, you just think your tired, you don't even know what the hell tired is.- Garth Ahlstrom (Thanx Dad love ya)

"When one of them is born, their god says ' Go in peace.'
When one of us is born our Gods say "Go hunting."- J. Emmett Willie


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Smoke73
.300 member


Reged: 30/05/11
Posts: 164
Loc: Rocky Mtn. House Alberta
Re: Regulating a 12 bore [Re: Smoke73]
      #205937 - 25/03/12 01:28 PM

The following is a target shot early this morning please review and feel free to comment. All loads were in a cheddite hull utilizing hard cards and felt wads where needed (smokeless). Please be aware that I in no way advise the use of 777 at these levels. While casehead expansion was acceptable recoil was nothing short of insane. I'm a young, strong and experienced shooter and I could not control this firearm with this load. 150 grains of Black seemed tame after these. On shot tabs B=Black L=Longshot 4756=IMR4756 777=777. I will post casehead measurements on another post


Much to Daryl's delight(I'm sure) 150 grains shot the best and deserves a proper grouping.

--------------------
Your not tired, you just think your tired, you don't even know what the hell tired is.- Garth Ahlstrom (Thanx Dad love ya)

"When one of them is born, their god says ' Go in peace.'
When one of us is born our Gods say "Go hunting."- J. Emmett Willie

Edited by CptCurl (25/03/12 11:01 PM)


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Smoke73
.300 member


Reged: 30/05/11
Posts: 164
Loc: Rocky Mtn. House Alberta
Re: Regulating a 12 bore [Re: Smoke73]
      #205939 - 25/03/12 01:30 PM

Blackpowder

120 grains = .812"
150 grains = .814"
160 grains = .814"

777

150 grains = .816"*


SR4756

36 grains = .812"
38 grains = .812"
39 grains = .812"

Longshot

31 grains = .811"
35 grains = .814"

All in cheddite hull with a base of .806"

For comparison Remington 00 Express buck has the same base of .806 and expands to .816"*

* largest measurement directly at base.  All others further up the brass

--------------------
Your not tired, you just think your tired, you don't even know what the hell tired is.- Garth Ahlstrom (Thanx Dad love ya)

"When one of them is born, their god says ' Go in peace.'
When one of us is born our Gods say "Go hunting."- J. Emmett Willie


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