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Kammerherren
.224 member


Reged: 22/02/11
Posts: 39
Loc: Norway
A Krag with modifications
      #185565 - 10/07/11 05:06 PM

Hi All,
I felt like a short show and tell about my Krag Jørgensen hunting rifle. This rifle is produced in 1918 as an M1912 carbine used in the Norwegian army. At some point some civilian bought it, and put a scope on it, together with a new stock. The cartridge used was the Norwegian/Swede 6,5x55, until I bought it and replaced the barrel with an 8mm and it is now chambered for the 8x54 Krag Jørgensen. This cartridge is based on a 6,5x55 brass and just expanded to 8mm. No big metalwork has to be done on the action. The 8x54KJ can be used for most European game, but it is not a long range hunting cartridge, due to it`s limited power. I bought this rifle about two years ago, and I had my local gunsmith to do the work I wanted. The gunsmith is very popular, so it takes some time before he returns the finished products due to a lot of work. Other then the new Lothar Walther barrel, he installed a "ghost ring" on the bolt, and a new trigger. When I lift the rifle to shoot, the ghost ring is perfectly located for my eyes. If I want to use the scope, I have to lift the head a bit. I intend to use this while hunting moose. When closing in on the moose, while the dog is keeping him busy, the distance will be short, so the ghost ring should work fine. I am for the moment testing ammo, so I can get the front sight adjusted to the ammo I ends up using. The scope can easily be adjusted later on. The scope is as you can see an old West German Zeiss. I have found that 41,5grs of Whitavory N140 gives very stable 715m. pr sec and with a 170grs RN from Hornady it should do the trick on moderate ranges. I have to admit that I like the feeling of using a rifle not everybody else use. This is no expensive rifle, but it is a small customized Krag that I don`t think there are many equals of around. It has been illegal to use this action for hunting since the seventies. But, because of changes in the gun laws here in Norway back in 2007, the Krag Jørgensen action is now legal for hunting again, and as a Norwegian, I like that a lot!
The last pick shows the 8x54KJ next to a 30-06 round.










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Collects guns made at Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk in Norway and European sporting rifles 1890-1940, feel free to have a look at my homepage. www.oldkongsbergarms.com

Edited by CptCurl (16/07/11 10:58 PM)

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AFRO408
.333 member


Reged: 21/01/09
Posts: 312
Loc: Arding NSW
Re: A Krag with modifications [Re: Kammerherren]
      #185569 - 10/07/11 05:53 PM

Kammerherren,
Thanks for that interesting article. Good photos too.
I'm surprised that your 8mm round is shorter than it's parent case. What's the reason?

--------------------
Flinch ? Wot flinch ? Gunsmithing is my PASSION.

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TexasJohn
.300 member


Reged: 06/04/10
Posts: 167
Loc: Texas
Re: A Krag with modifications [Re: AFRO408]
      #185579 - 11/07/11 12:26 AM

Kammerherren,
It warms my heart to see another Krag back in the field and being used as it should. I bought a custom Krag probably made in the 1930's on a Springfield action. While the action does not have the overall class of yours, they are still great old pieces. Mine is also somewhat unusual as it was modified and re-barrelled in .35 WCF:







It is very accurate with only the peep sight as shown by this 50 yard five shot group:



TexasJohn

--------------------
John

"In the Texas Oilfield, everything that does not kill me today, gets another chance tomorrow."

Edited by CptCurl (16/07/11 11:01 PM)

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: A Krag with modifications [Re: TexasJohn]
      #185585 - 11/07/11 12:56 AM

Considering the 6.5x55 was designed (with it's wierd shape) to have the same or very similar capacity as the 7x57, if necked to 8mm, the ctg. should be almost identical to a normal 8x57. I suspect most lighter, US manual loadings would work in the Krag - at least somewhere between starting loads and max.

Interesting 'fix'.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Kammerherren
.224 member


Reged: 22/02/11
Posts: 39
Loc: Norway
Re: A Krag with modifications [Re: DarylS]
      #185603 - 11/07/11 04:55 AM

Thanks for the nice words!

AFRO498, I am not sure, but i think the reason is that when you open the neck, there is simply not enough brass left to 55mm lenght.

John, that is one nice US Krag! Looks to be in good condition to! I just love the Krag action!

Daryl, I`m not sure if I understand you corect, but the volum in the 6,5x55 and the 7x57 is not similar. When it comes to the 8x54 and the 8x57 there is absolutely possible to add the same amount of powder as normally is used in the 8x57, but the Krag action is weak, so it should not be used too hard. See pic for details of used 6,5x55, 8x54 and 8x57. I`m not that into technical details regarding cartridges, could you please elaborate what you say about the wierd shape of the 6,5x55? I did not know it had a wierd shape?



Edited by CptCurl (16/07/11 11:01 PM)

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AFRO408
.333 member


Reged: 21/01/09
Posts: 312
Loc: Arding NSW
Re: A Krag with modifications [Re: Kammerherren]
      #185609 - 11/07/11 08:08 AM

Kammerheerren,
I was commenting on the cartridges in the last photo of your first post and I thought that you had a 6.5x55 next to your 8x54.
That will teach me to read the post completely.
I also didn't know that the 6.5x55 had a Weird shape. Maybe Daryl is wearing Weird glasses???

--------------------
Flinch ? Wot flinch ? Gunsmithing is my PASSION.

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kevinh1157
.224 member


Reged: 16/05/04
Posts: 6
Re: A Krag with modifications [Re: Kammerherren]
      #185730 - 13/07/11 08:31 AM

Thanks for your post. What future plans do you have for this rifle. I hunt with my KJ in California and get a lot of curious looks from the Magnum crowd prevalent here. Keep up the good work.

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Kammerherren
.224 member


Reged: 22/02/11
Posts: 39
Loc: Norway
Re: A Krag with modifications [Re: kevinh1157]
      #185747 - 13/07/11 07:47 PM

This is what I intend to use it for. This is a moose I got back in 2009, shot with a custom Brno 602 in 375H&H. I use the Brno when the shooting distance can be a bit longer. The Krag Jørgensen is not going to get any more changes, now I just need to find a good load for it.

--------------------
Collects guns made at Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk in Norway and European sporting rifles 1890-1940, feel free to have a look at my homepage. www.oldkongsbergarms.com

Edited by CptCurl (16/07/11 11:02 PM)

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AFRO408
.333 member


Reged: 21/01/09
Posts: 312
Loc: Arding NSW
Re: A Krag with modifications [Re: Kammerherren]
      #185749 - 13/07/11 09:02 PM

There's a lot of steaks in that moose mate.
Well done.
What are the regulations in your country?
Do you have to utilise all of the game that you shoot?

--------------------
Flinch ? Wot flinch ? Gunsmithing is my PASSION.

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Kammerherren
.224 member


Reged: 22/02/11
Posts: 39
Loc: Norway
Re: A Krag with modifications [Re: AFRO408]
      #185753 - 13/07/11 11:15 PM

AFRO, if you ask if we have to eat or use the fur if we shoot a fox or a badger, the answer is no. Normaly we pay for the "big" game we hunt, and the meat is very good, so normaly all moose, deer and so on that are shot ends up at the dinner table. My favorite meat is from the roe deer.

--------------------
Collects guns made at Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk in Norway and European sporting rifles 1890-1940, feel free to have a look at my homepage. www.oldkongsbergarms.com

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: A Krag with modifications [Re: Kammerherren]
      #185756 - 14/07/11 01:26 AM

HA!- good one, Afro408 -

the 6.5x55 - has an oversized base in comparrison to the normal 57mm case by about .005" to .006" - everyone knows that - but - what does an oversized base do? It increases case capacitiy.

This 'change'(sorry I called it weird) allowed the slightly shorter action of the 94/96 to easily accomodate a case (with long bullet seated) that has quite similar capacity to the 57mm case the Germans used - or so it was written up about the why's and wherefores for the larger diameter, shorter case, some time ago - in Sweden or maybe Denmark by Norma - I do not remember the publication nor author. It may have been some modern writer's speculation or truth - the truth is the case capacities were almost the same.

So - I did what anyone would do (??) - I checked the capacities myself before making asumptions. I am quite surprised no one else did this after I made the statement above and instead just said bullshit because they thought 57mm case held more powder. I am surprised, not upset, just surprised.

Check the case capacities yourselves - length is not everything, my friends.

The 6.5x55 has a capacity of roughly 55.04gr.(water), while the 57mm case has a capacity of roughly 55.55gr.(water) Water is used as it is a standard for case capacities.

Cases are filled to the top of the neck, not bullet base or base of the neck/shoulder junction - top of the neck- for consistancy purposes. They sounds pretty close to me. Yes - the 7x57mm case has 1/2gr. more capacity, and yes - I said approximately or close. Yes - it's technical - but it's true.

Now, the 6.5x55 case had 1/2gr. less capacity than the 7x57 case, but neck the 6.5 up to 7mm and it has the same capacity or even more. That's a shock, A?

Neck up the 57mm case to 8mm and it has greater capacity than the 7x57 - that's normal due to larger neck. Neck up the 6.5x55 to 8mm and it also has more - it's relative capacity and actually the 8mm on the 55mm case has greater capacity than the 8x57, actually - but they are very close.

Which chamber they are fired in, ie: actual size of the chamber, will dictate exactly that their respective capacities will be.

Nice long yearling moose.(year and 1/2 old)

Edited for what I hope, is better clarity.

Edited by Daryl_S (14/07/11 02:14 AM)

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AFRO408
.333 member


Reged: 21/01/09
Posts: 312
Loc: Arding NSW
Re: A Krag with modifications [Re: DarylS]
      #185784 - 14/07/11 07:47 AM

Interesting info there Daryl, but I'm glad you did all the fiddling around and not me.

In the early 90's, I was mucking around with a .257 wildcat cartridge. Started out with a .308 case and then graduated to a 6.5x55 case because of the larger base diameter. I had been given a 25 cal barrel with a home cut chamber and when I reamed it out for the .308 case, there was a small section on one side, with the old tool marks and in trying to get rid of them I tried the 6.5 case in an improved shape. Wide 40deg shoulders.
Accidentally it turned out to be the best performer and the most accurate, because I later upped it to a 25-284 and didn't gain much at all.

Kammerherren, good luck with your quest for the perfect load for your 8x54KJ. I'm sure you'll find one that works for you.

--------------------
Flinch ? Wot flinch ? Gunsmithing is my PASSION.

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Kammerherren
.224 member


Reged: 22/02/11
Posts: 39
Loc: Norway
Re: A Krag with modifications [Re: AFRO408]
      #185789 - 14/07/11 09:19 AM

Very interesting info Daryl, this was absolutely new to me. I actually thought that the 6,5x55 and the 7x57 was based on the same brass...... I have never loaded ammo for the 8x57, nor the 7x57. The fact that we can learn something here is just great! Thanks.

--------------------
Collects guns made at Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk in Norway and European sporting rifles 1890-1940, feel free to have a look at my homepage. www.oldkongsbergarms.com

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: A Krag with modifications [Re: Kammerherren]
      #185798 - 14/07/11 12:14 PM

Pleasure!

Your 6.5 had a wierd chamber for sure, Afro408.
Sounds as if the .257's original chamber was a bit 'off'.

I chambered up a barrel for my daughter, using a .260 Rem reamer, but ran the reamer in .145" further than normal.

It had the normal .260Rem. shoulder diameter and angle of .454" and 20 degrees, along with the short .260 neck, however the case the rifle was chambered for, was a slightly shortened 7mm mauser(or necked up 6mm Rem, or shortened 8mm mauser or shortened .270, .280 .30/06 or .35 Whelen - blown out to .260's dimensions.
It had the same capacity as the 6.5x.284 Norma round - 60gr. It drove the 120gr. "Barnes "XCL" at 3,308fps, only 50fps slower than my .264Win Mag did with it's 85gr. capacity.

I love wildcats, but one must have an idea what he's playing with. Sometimes working up loads for rounds that have no known data can casue grey and/or white hair to appear, overnight.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: A Krag with modifications [Re: DarylS]
      #186021 - 18/07/11 05:02 AM

nice krag sporter, i like them all

did you have original ammo boxes for the 8x54? I think Norma load it into to the 70s but never see it.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: A Krag with modifications [Re: lancaster]
      #186036 - 18/07/11 11:15 AM

Thanks for posting that super riffel there, Kammer.

IIRC, the 8x54 gained some favor due to minimum legal caliber sizes for elgjakt back in the '50's?

Very nice work, and a classic norsk hunting rifle.

Should work well for ulve, too.

Hilsen,

Rod

PS: Your avatar is one of my favorite explorers. A true hero if there ever was one!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Kammerherren
.224 member


Reged: 22/02/11
Posts: 39
Loc: Norway
Re: A Krag with modifications [Re: 9.3x57]
      #186160 - 20/07/11 06:44 PM

Lancaster, Norma made their ammo for the 8x54 until around 1955. Here is a pic.



9,3x57, I am not familiar with any minimum caliber size for moose hunting in Norway back in the 50`s, except the rules we have now. (The rules we have today is that the bullet has to be at least 9 grams and the energy has to be more than 2700 joule at 100m. Ore, the bullet is heavier than 10 grams and the energy should be more than 2200 joule at 100m.) This is covering moose, deer, reindeer and wild boar. This rifle should work perfectly for wolf as well, yes! I totally agree on that Nansen is a favorite explorer!

--------------------
Collects guns made at Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk in Norway and European sporting rifles 1890-1940, feel free to have a look at my homepage. www.oldkongsbergarms.com

Edited by CptCurl (20/07/11 08:56 PM)

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