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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Muzzleloaders & Blackpowder

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Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Cleaning blackpowder rifles
      #185535 - 10/07/11 02:51 AM

Hello Folks,

Even Ned Roberts got tired of the old boiling water routine. He switched to Hoppe's No. 9 or J.L.N. Nirto-Solvent for cleaning, and B.S.A. Safetipaste, Rust Veto No. 3, or Rig for rust prevention (although I know he was fond of bear fat).

There are numerous solutions for cleaning muzzleloading rifles; many are home-made. They range from hot water to witches brews. Saliva comes highly recommended. What's your favorite?

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member


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Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: Cleaning blackpowder rifles [Re: Tatume]
      #185536 - 10/07/11 03:04 AM

As a follow-up question, who among you have tried Ballistol? The can recommends a 50/50 mix with water for cleaning up after blackpowder, but the product contains mineral oil. Petroleum products are reputed to scorch in the bore and leave a hard-to-remove residue. Does Ballistol cause this problem.

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member


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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Cleaning blackpowder rifles [Re: Tatume]
      #185561 - 10/07/11 01:37 PM

I use cold water.
Nothing else, and I tend to re-use my cleaning patches after a soak and wash.

After a full cold water patching and scrub with a fiber brush if necessary I oil with bear oil that I rendered from a coastal black bear.
I have no rust or pitting problems at all.

Holland and Holland still recommend plain water as the best cleaning solution for black powder guns and rifles.

As a note, I don't run corrosive priming compounds, and I don't run imitation 'black powder substitutes'




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Cleaning blackpowder rifles [Re: tinker]
      #185588 - 11/07/11 01:44 AM


Tom as usual, there are many 'products' you can buy, that are not needed in the slightest.

Tinker is using the best black powder solvent, in my humble opinion. I do exactly the same and have been since I learned of it from a letter to a friend from the English, H&H, not the US MuzzleLoading barrel maker who uses the same name. Not sure how that works.

Until that time, I used very hot water and used to get minor flash rusting, just about every time I cleaned my rifles - which was about twice a week. It was quite upsetting to see that red rust come out on the drying patch.

I found cold water worked perfectly. By sticking the breech end in a bucket or container of water and flushing/pumping water up and down, forcing it out the nipple seat or vent, all the fouling would be disolved and flushed out the breech.

This cleaning is followed by running drying patches up and down the bore - I use cotton flannelette - ie; like baby diaper material. I use a jag size that allows doubling the cloth- it holds more and drys and cleans to the bottom of even deep grooves. It usually takes from 4 to 5 drying patches to get it bone dry. The last one feels sticky due to the bore being dry.

After drying, I flush/spray WD40 down the bore until it runs out the nipple seat or vent, then double patch and blast it out the vent, running that patch up and down the bore a number of time. The WD40 helps remove any residual moisture from the bore. I use that patch to wipe down the oustide of the barrel then put it back on the gun.

At Rendezvous, I will sometimes removed the lock and put a paper towel in the lock mortice, then stick a round toothpic in the vent and fill the bore with cold water, right ot the top of the muzzle and lean the rifle against the truck's mirror or a tree. About 10 or 15 minutes later, I pull the pic and let the water drain out. I replace the pic and fill it again, waiting then draining. I then run patches down and up the bore until clean and dry, then spray WD40 into it and flush that out with tight patches, wipe her down and that's that, clean the lock in water, spray it with WD40, wipe off the excess, then replace it - then store it upsidedown to keep the vent clear.

I then store the rifle or smoothbore, muzzle down. That way, any excess can run down the tube to the cloth the muzzle is resting on, and not form any residue inside the bore, as well as keeping the ignition area of the gun clear of wet oil. Storing the rifle, muzzle down, is a new thing for me, and in 20years of cleaning this way previously, I never saw any residue or varnish built up anywhere, from the drying WD40 as I've read happens. I think that's BS plain and simple. The main reason i store them muzzle down, is to keep the nipples, nipple seat or vent clear of wet oil.

Many people use and swear by various products and that's just fine. I use water as it works for me and everyone I know. Some folks say WD40 lacks good enough moisture protection in their areas due to normally high humidity. When I lived at the coast, I didn't have any problems - but do whatever you need to, to prevent rust.

I do not use black powder replacements as I feel they are harmful to the bore in the ML and they can destroy brass in BP ctg. guns.

In almost 40years of shooting black powder, I've never rusted a bore, inside or out, using real black powder. I did pit a bore and the outside at the breech from cap flash, using a chlorate primer compound I made from the pellet primer formula of the mid 1800's. It was somewhat unstable, btw and was outlawed in England in 1898.
Most of the modern replacement powders are made with one of the chlorates.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: Cleaning blackpowder rifles [Re: DarylS]
      #185599 - 11/07/11 04:32 AM

Hi Tinker and Daryl,

One very accurate rifle of mine is a Parker Hale Volunteer, of which I am very fond. It was a prize gun won by a friend of mine at a championship tournament in Germany some years ago. He needed a 308 Win deer rifle and I needed a 45 caliber bullet gun, so we swapped. I gave him my Ruger M77 Mk II International with a 4x Leupold scope.

Although I agree that cold water is probably the best solvent for removing black powder fouling, I'm concerned about getting past the coating of bullet lube inside the barrel. The Lyman 450 gr bullets I cast for the Volunteer have six grooves, and carry a lot of lube. So, I use a bit of dishwashing detergent in the water to cut the grease.

Although I generally lubricate my patches with Ox Yoke or T/C patch lube, I think I'll switch to saliva in my round ball guns. This is just so I can use pure water for cleaning. I'll still use patch lube for hunting, because I don't want the patch to dry out.

Thanks for your thoughts.

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member


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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Cleaning blackpowder rifles [Re: Tatume]
      #185652 - 12/07/11 12:45 AM

Whether I use an oil or water based lube, I use cold water for cleaning. It gets the bore clean.

Ny BP bullet rifles also get water for cleaning and those barrels also clean up perfectly.

The only lube I've heard of that maintains it's original greasy 'composition' inside a barrel after being fired, is bore butter, which by actual formula, I'm told is lip balm with wintegreen oil added. It is slippery/greasy (when warm), but adheres to the inside of the bore and builds up - in some rifles, ruining accuracy in as few as 12 shots. It must be removed with something that will disolve it - either boiling hot water, or a solvent. I suspect WD40 will disolve it by itself.

My brother Taylor, who builds fine rifles, used Neetsfoot oil all last winter - every Sunday shooting our bush trail walk. He uses nothing but cold water for cleaning and it did a splendid job - as always.

If you want to use a solvent, by all means do it - but - myown experience and that of others I shoot with says it isn't necessary. Note, we flush-clean our muzzleloading rifles. We don't merley use damp patches as some do. That's how bores become rusted. In ctg. guns, the open breech allows inspection, one end to the other. The bullet lube does not coat and become difficult to remove. Water & patches does it.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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