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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Optimum load for a 45-70 DR in NA [Re: Setterguy]
      #199714 - 17/01/12 05:11 AM

Setterguy - at about 30,000psi, which should be OK in your rifle, you can make 2,000fps with 26" tubes, quite easily, I believe with both 350's and 400's.

Have you deceided on barrel length?

Note that lead bullets usually gives 100fps higher speeds than jacketed with the same load and that is probably due to the higher pressure generated by the lead bullets.

A good North American load might be the 300gr. Nosler Partition. Those who've used it are enamoured with it's penetration and killing power - on black bear, hogs and deer.

A 'stiff' bullet for that rifle could be the 350gr. Speer.

It has a 1/16" thick jacket - quite formidible, but needs over 2,000fps to expand according to Speer - sounds like a good bullet to me for moose, elk and the BIG bears.

I'm seeing velocities of over 2,200fps at around only 30,000psi. Sounds similar to a .405 - with some added diameter.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Setterguy
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Reged: 09/06/11
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Re: Optimum load for a 45-70 DR in NA [Re: DarylS]
      #199741 - 17/01/12 12:12 PM

Daryl
Interesting you asked the question on barrel length. I posted a question on the other thread seeking barrel length input. The barrels are currently 24inches. They are heavy and I was considering cutting them to 22. What do you think?---Bill

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twobobbwana
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Reged: 25/11/11
Posts: 299
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Re: Optimum load for a 45-70 DR in NA [Re: Setterguy]
      #199856 - 18/01/12 11:42 AM

Setterguy,

I understand your wanting to protect your solid model given the time, money and input you have in it.

Keep up the good work and posting photos.

Everything we attempt to do has the capacity for failure. But it is better to have tried and failed than to have never tried...........but it's better yet to have tried and succeeded.

I wish you all the best in your endeavours.

Twobobbwana

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DarylS
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Re: Optimum load for a 45-70 DR in NA [Re: twobobbwana]
      #199860 - 18/01/12 12:07 PM

If they feel better and handle/balance nicely, then 22" is better.

The velocity loss is minimal, like about 50fps or less and not important.

The whole idea for a double rifle is to have a quick handling rifle with 2 shots available without having to reload. To be effective for this, the gun must fit and swing like a slightly heavy shotgun - say similar to a 10 bore double. I really liked mine on geese - heavy enough at 9 pounds that I couldn't stop the swing if I'd wanted to. It was deadly. That's how the rifle should swing- instinctively.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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twobobbwana
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Re: Optimum load for a 45-70 DR in NA [Re: DarylS]
      #199968 - 19/01/12 02:07 PM

Setterguy,

Given the Model 21's reputation for strength and the fact that you've got one captured as a solid model imagine it's suitability as a double rifle action if you Back Action Sidelocked it !!!!

Less material machined from the action body would add weight "between the hands" and rigidity.

Possibly a future project for you "in your spare time".

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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
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Re: Optimum load for a 45-70 DR in NA [Re: Setterguy]
      #200234 - 22/01/12 12:38 AM

Setterguy,
I would not cut them off shorter than the 24 inches you already have. If the gun needs to loose weight, thin the tubes some more out past the halfway point rather than shortening them. They will handle better and point better than the shorter barrels as well as giving you a longer sighting radius. That's something that nobody mentions much around here, but it is important to a guns' accuracy that will be shot mostly offhand. If you shorten the barrels or lighten them too much, they become whippy and harder to shoot well. You need some weight out front to help stabilize the offhand shooting. Much of the final weight will depend on your body makeup and overall strength.

If you are slightly built, then too much weight will make it difficult for you to hold up and shoot the gun, but if you are a big stronger man, then too light a front weight will make it very hard for you to shoot the gun because your muscles need a given amount of strain on them to become more solid during offhand shooting. If all you were doing was shooting over a bench, it wouldn't matter.

We all have our ideas about what's right in balancing and designing. I'll tell you now that I am primarily a hunter who builds guns, and if they are too heavy to carry in rough brush all day, then I don't care for that. But, I still want enough weight forward to make for good offhand shooting. You will have to compute your gun's overall weight to match the loads used and your over all ability to absorb recoil. Recoil bothers some people alot more than others. Good luck with your project, and I still think that the 45/70 is the right choice for your gun. Bob H.

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DarylS
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Re: Optimum load for a 45-70 DR in NA [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #200242 - 22/01/12 04:27 AM

Very good points, Bob.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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