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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: a 404 Rigby [Re: dons]
      #184002 - 17/06/11 07:51 PM

Quote:

I'll have to agree with kamilaroi on this one. I doubt the provenance as well. Nothing "Rigby" about this rifle including the barrel address.




I think it can be difficult to sometimes make comments of a rifle somtimes which can be quite true, but perceived as a bit negative. It is good for a lot of us guys whom do not have the same knowledge to learn from members whom are experts. Education is also a good thing, as is members being willing to share their rifles, and not get bagged for putting them up.

After all my last Mauser purchase is not even a M98 and has a plastic green stock!

As "DonS" says above about the provenance or at least the appearance of the rifle displayed. Doesn't mean as 4seventy points out, it wasn't a "form" of Rigby made during a particular period.

Also whom knows what instructions the gunmaker received from the client? It may have been made in a particular style per client instructions?

After when it comes to style, I'm sure I've seen Monte Carlo stocked rifles from a UK gunmaker! Don't have photos to prove that though.

In the end, any style will made some happy, and others will not like it.

As said in the opening post, there is no doubt, the .404 rifle displayed would be a good working gun.

Just some thoughts.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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4seventy
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Re: a 404 Rigby [Re: NitroX]
      #184003 - 17/06/11 07:58 PM

Quote:

Also whom knows what instructions the gunmaker received from the client? It may have been made in a particular style per client instructions?





That's a very good point.
Often the maker will be blamed for a particular rifle's looks, when it wasn't really the makers fault.


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500Nitro
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Re: a 404 Rigby [Re: justcurious]
      #184039 - 18/06/11 06:15 AM

Quote:


All to often people pay for a name and not always for quality.





Especially when people don't know that WR, Rigby, H&H etc seemed to have built differing levels of quality or finish
which is not readily apparent until you have looked at a few.


I'd take the above at the right price. A bit different but still a Rigby 404, not many around.
.


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Mike_Bailey
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Re: a 404 Rigby [Re: 500Nitro]
      #184044 - 18/06/11 08:58 AM

It is certainly true that some "best" makers have had to build rifles/shotguns that they detested in terms of looks/finish/specs, that is a truth, best

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Rule303
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Re: a 404 Rigby [Re: HuntingSchneider]
      #184047 - 18/06/11 10:11 AM

Speaking of speaking ill of a firearm. I am the opposite to HuntingS. I did not post for a while because I thought of everybody as being to nice. No one seemed to speak their mind and give honest feed back. I like the comment about "boat paddle" but the FFS I agree is not needed. Any way I like the boat paddle, bit like the stock on an old Lithgow 303 conversion to 22Hornet that I have.

What I am trying to say is to me there is nothing wrong with negative comment if it is A) Constructive critism B) Pointing out percieved/known faults or weaknesses, or just sayin that something is not your cup of tea. I have learnt a bit about H&H and Rigby from reading this thread.

I am not keen on the safety and rear of the bolt, but have never liked the look of the rear end of military Mauser Bolts but love the looks of the Win 70 style safety/backend of bolts. I find the front sight quirky but functional and like it. Yep liking the Slazenger(Lithgow) Hornet shows I am a bit quirky as does my reason for not posting for a while. Like others have said I would have the rifle as a work gun but the price would have to be right.

Those who know please correct me if I am wrong but the stock looks similar to current CZ550's in big bore calibres.

Cheers
Greg


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FATBOY404
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Re: a 404 Rigby [Re: Rule303]
      #184048 - 18/06/11 10:18 AM

Yes,good point Greg.

Constructive critism being the key !!!!!!!!!!!.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"


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kuduae
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Re: a 404 Rigby [Re: FATBOY404]
      #184134 - 19/06/11 07:05 AM

IMHO this Rigby .404 is a typical example from the Paul Roberts 1984-1997 period. The 2 numbers under the "LP" will certainly date it, as they are the year of proof, 1985? Here are 5 pics from Rigby's advertizing from that time. As you see, they show most of the "non-Rigby" features you criticize: The close pistol grip, the spearpoint or quarterrib sight base, the front sight with protector. BTW, at that time they built most of their .416 and .450 Rigby rifles on modified Brno ZKK actions, the only true magnum length actions available in the 1980s.











Edited by CptCurl (22/06/11 10:25 PM)


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kuduae
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Re: a 404 Rigby [Re: kuduae]
      #184140 - 19/06/11 07:23 AM

BTW, Rigby's must have been on hard times in the 1970s: I once saw a .375 rifle inscribed on the floorplate "finished, shot and sighted by John Rigby and company". It was a stock 1970s Brno ZKK rifle without any modifications visible. It featured that terrible ZKK Monte Carlo stock, complete with white-line spacers, ventilated recoil pad and painted-on black foreend tip. Even the laquer finish looked like those on any other ZKK, so Rigby's "Finishing" can not have been more than a wipe-down with a cloth. The floorplate inscription was the only feature added by Rigby.

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500Nitro
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Re: a 404 Rigby [Re: kuduae]
      #184141 - 19/06/11 07:25 AM


Everyone was having a hard time in the 70's, not just Rigby.

.


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Rule303
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Re: a 404 Rigby [Re: kuduae]
      #184148 - 19/06/11 09:34 AM

Thats as may well be the case. However Rigby may of cleaned up the action and trued the action, triger work, etc as per clients instructions. I guess it is one thing we will never know for certain.

Edited by Rule303 (19/06/11 05:36 PM)


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kuduae
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Re: a 404 Rigby [Re: Rule303]
      #184200 - 20/06/11 01:25 AM

Quote:

However Rigby may of cleaned up the action and trued the action, triger work, etc as per clients instructions.



If they did, they did a really lousy job! The action was just as rough and the trigger as creepy as on any old ZKK set up by the Brno factory. Everything except the inscription was common unaltered factory stock.


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Rule303
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Re: a 404 Rigby [Re: kuduae]
      #184282 - 21/06/11 12:18 PM

Quote:

Quote:

However Rigby may of cleaned up the action and trued the action, triger work, etc as per clients instructions.



If they did, they did a really lousy job! The action was just as rough and the trigger as creepy as on any old ZKK set up by the Brno factory. Everything except the inscription was common unaltered factory stock.




Well that seems to answer that question. Looks like as others were on Hard times and rebadged or custpomer paid to have the Rigby name on it.


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: a 404 Rigby [Re: Rule303]
      #184385 - 22/06/11 10:35 PM

At the risk of fanning the flames, I'll weigh in on the issue of negative comments.

I truly believe it is essential to air negative issues about any firearm. We have no real discussion if the warts are taboo. We learn by discussing the warts as well as the favorable attributes of any firearm.

The manner of presentation is the difference between a shrill criticism and a constructive comment on a negative feature.

There's a lot to be learned in this thread, and it wouldn't be much of a learning experience if the only comments were "How beautiful!".

I don't think anyone should be discouraged from mentioning negative aspects of style, workmanship, etc. We just should remember to present these issues constructively and with a certain level of respect. We don't want to sugar coat everything.

JMHO.

Curl

--------------------
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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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FATBOY404
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Re: a 404 Rigby [Re: CptCurl]
      #184412 - 23/06/11 06:36 AM

Agreed Curl.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"


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458Win
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Re: a 404 Rigby [Re: FATBOY404]
      #186213 - 21/07/11 03:07 AM

Another agreement with Curl, The nice thing about this forum is that politeness is expected but requiring that everyone only say nice things is PC BS. This is not a funeral or wake as the rifle is still up and running.
We learn from both the good and the bad.
Rigby made it's reputation by building superbly functional and highly aesthetic rifles. By having knowledgeable folks on this forum point out just how far Rigby's quality fell during certain periods of time we can all learn.

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
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kuduae
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Re: a 404 Rigby [Re: NitroX]
      #186224 - 21/07/11 07:14 AM

Quote:

After when it comes to style, I'm sure I've seen Monte Carlo stocked rifles from a UK gunmaker! Don't have photos to prove that though.

In the end, any style will made some happy, and others will not like it.

As said in the opening post, there is no doubt, the .404 rifle displayed would be a good working gun.

Just some thoughts.




Nitrox, here are some scans from ca 1990 catalogs/flyers.
Holland & Holland:




Westley Richards:



BTW, I have also seen two awfull "working rifles" by Holland & Holland, both in .375 H&H, 1950s-60s vintage. One on an Enfield P14, the other on an opened-up WW2 K98k sniper action, the plugged sidemount holes still visible. Typical "H&H" from a distance, but terrible workmanship up close: Alloy mag/trigger guards, sloppy inletting, checkering cut lopsided.

Edited by CptCurl (22/07/11 03:59 AM)


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AFRO408
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Re: a 404 Rigby [Re: kuduae]
      #186227 - 21/07/11 08:24 AM

What I've learnt over the years, is that most, if not ALL the big, medium and small names in gun making, out sourced parts/jobs/complete rifles/shotguns in their time, whether in good or bad times and branded them as their own.
Birmingham and London had lots of different parts makers who supplied the big names.
I would assume that wealthy clients of Rigby/Holland/Purdy/etc, would have a big input as to the outcome of their chosen rifle/shotgun. We are just seeing the results of those orders.

Course language aside, this has been an informative thread.

--------------------
Flinch ? Wot flinch ? Gunsmithing is my PASSION.


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Igorrock
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Re: a 404 Rigby [Re: AFRO408]
      #186245 - 21/07/11 03:11 PM

Here is two "fine" Hollan & Holland -rifles. So you notice the base action on both is SAKO L61 Finnbear:


http://www.huntershouse.dk/kat408-Rifler/side742-Holland-Holland.html



http://www.huntershouse.dk/kat408-Rifler/side670-Holland-Holland.html

If you go to Hunters Houseīs homepage you can find some more "fine" british rifles too...;-)
http://www.huntershouse.dk/kat408-Rifler/

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

Edited by CptCurl (22/07/11 04:00 AM)


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Huvius
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Re: a 404 Rigby [Re: Igorrock]
      #186267 - 22/07/11 02:10 AM

These are examples of the "shot and regulated" rifles. High dollar gunspeak for " sighted in"!
H&H, of course, had zero to do with the build of these guns, just happened to have a customer willing to pay them to sight the rifle, maybe file the sights and engrave their name on it.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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Igorrock
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Re: a 404 Rigby [Re: Huvius]
      #186277 - 22/07/11 05:29 AM

I donīt konow who has built them but the stocks model isnīt SAKOs own.

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http://promaakari.wordpress.com/


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