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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Wilhelm Brennecke /Leipzig Drilling
#183020 - 02/06/11 10:42 PM

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3338758

finally someone understood that you cant hope for top money with crappy pic's. nice drilling carefully freshen up

made in 1938 for Wilhelm Brenneke in Leipzig like the other breech action guns and rifles from Schmidt & Habermann in Suhl I suspect. the Brenneke action is something you dont see every day!
great drilling in 7x65R and 16/65, sold for good money, I hope he gets a good new home.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (05/06/11 10:33 PM)

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ellenbr
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Reged: 25/08/07
Posts: 167
Loc: North Alabama

Re: Wilhelm Brennecke /Leipzig Drilling [Re: lancaster]
#183065 - 03/06/11 10:00 PM

Yes, indeed on the images/pics. I was hoping that Büchseman put it in his collection. My 2nd guess would have been E. Schmidt & Habermann but I'm pretty confident that Suhler Waffenwerke Gebrüder Merkel made it with Adolf Schade in partnership with Ernst Merkel. That oak leaf engraving seems very familiar.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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lancaster
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Re: Wilhelm Brennecke /Leipzig Drilling [Re: ellenbr]
#183072 - 04/06/11 01:48 AM

to my knowledge Schmidt & Habermann was making the breech action guns and rifles for brenneke but of course in pre war times everything was possible in Suhl. anyone knows the english designation for the Brenneke action? in german it would be called best Stützhakenverschluß. you dont see it every day.

Schmidt& Habermann was making a lot of rifles for the trade but they were certainly one of the best makers in this time. this is what I remember here just know
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=171575&an=0&page=1#Post171575

http://www.jagdwaffensammler.de/drilling-schmidt-habermann.html

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (04/06/11 04:45 AM)

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Kiwi_bloke
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Reged: 03/09/09
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Re: Wilhelm Brennecke /Leipzig Drilling [Re: lancaster]
#187105 - 02/08/11 03:55 PM

Regarding Stützhakenverschluss; can I help partly answer this in a round-a-bout way:

My German cafe owner Helga was showing me a picture on the wall of her hometown, Wuppertal. It showed the unique suspended railway there. She couldn't think of the engineer's name for the braces or supports that hold it up. I happened to have a Schüler-Lexicon that named them as Stützen. Now this is, of course, also the name of the Stützen rifle which we call in English "fully-stocked". We learn from this, (I think), that Stützen means that the long stock is seen as a "support" and that it does not mean it's a carbine as it is so often translated as, (some Stützen stocked rifles are, of course, much longer than carbines. I have an example myself).

The German word Stütz means "brace" in English, hacken means hooks, and Verschluss simply means a lock. So I guess you're referring to the "bracing hooks" alongside of the barrels that lock it into the receiver and so reinforce the whole action. As to what it's called exactly in English, I cannot say. I have an old (1960) Gun Digest that has a full-length article on Wilhelm Brenneke and his designs. It includes illustrations of this very type of action. Annoyingly, it does not give a name for this bracing hook system. It seems to me that, the Browning (Miroku made) Citori and the current Beretta O&U line all use a variation of the original Brenneke Stützhakenverschluss design.

The shooting terms dictionary; WÖrterbuch der Waffentechnik, English-Deutsch, Deutsch-Englisch published by DWJ Verlags-GmbH, does not translate Stützhakenverschluss. However I hope this helps somewhat advance the discussion.

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lancaster
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Re: Wilhelm Brennecke /Leipzig Drilling [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
#187155 - 03/08/11 05:41 AM

Quote:

Regarding Stützhakenverschluss; can I help partly answer this in a round-a-bout way:

My German cafe owner Helga was showing me a picture on the wall of her hometown, Wuppertal. It showed the unique suspended railway there. She couldn't think of the engineer's name for the braces or supports that hold it up. I happened to have a Schüler-Lexicon that named them as Stützen. Now this is, of course, also the name of the Stützen rifle which we call in English "fully-stocked". We learn from this, (I think), that Stützen means that the long stock is seen as a "support" and that it does not mean it's a carbine as it is so often translated as, (some Stützen stocked rifles are, of course, much longer than carbines. I have an example myself).

please let me correct something: the Stutzen rifle is not write with umlaut ü. this word is a dialect thing and more common in south germany /austria. it comes from the 19. maybe from the 18. century - I am not sure about it now - and means a short hunting rifle with full stock. iicr, Stutzen means "gestutzte länge" what I would translate in english as shortened lenght because it was shorter than a common infanterie musket or even a rifle if we look to WW 1.
a carbine was a much shorter firearm having a ring to hang it into the carabiner on the bandolier of the soldier.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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kuduae
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Re: Wilhelm Brennecke /Leipzig Drilling [Re: lancaster]
#187167 - 03/08/11 08:51 AM

The German language is called complicated not without reason! I will try to set some things straight. There are three very similar words, two of them spelled even the same, but with different meanings. All three are related in origin to the English word "stop".
1. stützen (with Umlaut) = to support, to prop up, "stop from falling down". This is the word behind Brenecke's "Stützhakenverschluss". In the context of gun barrels, Haken = hook is the technical term for the things called barrel lumps/lugs in English. So a "Stützhakenverschluss" may be translated as a "supporting lump action".
2. stutzen = to trim. dock, clip, shorten, "stop from growing". Lancaster is right, the Austrians called any rifle shorter than a musket a Stutzen. The Steyr factory even called the 24" barreled, half stock iterations of the Mannlicher-Schoenauer "Stutzen" pre-WW2. In most of Germany, except the southernmost part, this term was unknown until after 1900. Only after the Austrians started to sell their M1903 Mannlicher-Schoenauers, "Stutzen" became known. As the most popular version was the full-stock carbine, "Stutzen" became the German household word for a full stocked rifle, just as "Mannlicher stock" in English.
3. stutzen = to hesitate, to become suspicious, "to stop short". Rarely gun related, except in some hunting situations when something unexpected is noticed. May also happen if you realize that you packed the wrong cartridges F.I.

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