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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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WesF
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Loc: Montana
Newbie Question for you experts.
      #182749 - 29/05/11 04:18 PM

Hi gentlemen.
I've been reading these forums for a bit over a year now and I have learned so much. I rarely post since I'm still very much a newbie in this hobby. I was looking over the Griffin and Howe website http://griffinhowe.com/riflemoreinfo.cfm

About half way down on the page there is a pair of Rigby double rifles. I started drooling all over my keyboard the moment I saw them. They have the pair listed for $26,500.00 I've seen a lot of Rigbys listed at this for a single rifle. According to the add, everything on the rifles is in good shape.

Can someone tell me why they would be listed for a price that seems very low to me? I'm new to this, but they just seem like they would command a higher price.

Still learning,

Wes

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
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Re: Newbie Question for you experts. [Re: WesF]
      #182759 - 29/05/11 11:09 PM






I can't tell much about them from the listing, but it looks to me the stock on the smaller rifle has been shattered and repaired. There are chips out of it around and behind the locks; the rear lock mounting screw is a crude replacement; the bottom of the pistol grip obviously has broken off.

I would want to see the head of that stock.

I would seriously doubt the statement that the finish on the wood is original as to either rifle.

Other than those comments they are a mystery. What is the condition of the bores? Are the actions tight? Ribs loose? Other repairs evident? There are so many other factors.

I'm not running them down; just trying to answer your question.

I find for myself the best way to evaluate a firearm is to start with the notion that it's a piece of shit and then let the gun convince me of its attributes, remaining skeptical all along. Objectivity is essential. Otherwise you can let your mind gloss over the faults. That approach is your best chance to avoid being "dazzled."

Those rifles could well have potential. That second one probably needs a stock.

JMHO, YMMV.

Curl

I have edited this post to insert the photos and description from the G&H advertisement.

Edited by CptCurl (30/05/11 12:29 PM)

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WesF
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Reged: 17/03/10
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Loc: Montana
Re: Newbie Question for you experts. [Re: CptCurl]
      #182767 - 30/05/11 02:03 AM

Thanks for the reply Curl. I just need to develop my eye a bit more when looking at pictures. If I'm holding a gun in my hand, I can usually pick out flaws easily and quickly. But I find it more difficult with photos. Since I'm still learning, I often am not sure what I should be looking for when it comes to vintage guns. I am getting better at it as time passes!
I do like your idea of assuming its a piece of crap until it proves itself otherwise.

Thanks again!

Wes

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Newbie Question for you experts. [Re: WesF]
      #182770 - 30/05/11 02:29 AM

Here's a look at an antique that's absolutely perfect in the head of the stock. I was delighted to see its condition.

First the locks come off:








Then the action comes off the wood:









.

No oil, no cracks, nothing wallowed out, nothing screwed with. Those guys did nice work 125 years ago.

I bet that Rigby won't look like this.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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DarylS
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Re: Newbie Question for you experts. [Re: CptCurl]
      #182773 - 30/05/11 03:55 AM

Oh WOW- that lock, tigger plate and tang inletting is simply marvelous! Absolutley nothing more than necessary removed.
Thankyou, Curl.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Newbie Question for you experts. [Re: DarylS]
      #182782 - 30/05/11 06:02 AM

Not everybody has an opportunity to see handwork from the 1880'S, so I thought I would post those photos. The first two were taken under different light, as you can see.

It's my hammerless Henry .450BPE.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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WesF
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Reged: 17/03/10
Posts: 27
Loc: Montana
Re: Newbie Question for you experts. [Re: CptCurl]
      #182795 - 30/05/11 10:55 AM

Thanks again for posting Curl! You've been a great help. A large part of the reason I keep coming back to these forums and spend hours reading here is because of people like you who are willing and happy to share their knowledge with the new guys.

Those pictures are marvelous and the rifle is stunning. I think I've seen the other pictures of it in a few other posts on the forums. Nice to see the inside is just as beautiful as the outside!


Wes

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
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Re: Newbie Question for you experts. [Re: WesF]
      #182799 - 30/05/11 12:06 PM

Curl points out a very important detail of vintage rifle condition.
Although you can get into a BPE rifle that's had issues in the head and wrist of the stock -- if you're paying anywhere near top dollar it's very very important to make double damn sure that this critical area of the rifle is fit and original.

It is possible to have had repair/work in the head and wrist of the stock and have a perfectly functional rifle that will continue to function for generations, BUT tip-top original condition is just that - and that's where top dollar belongs.
Don't forget bore condition, *original chambers*, solid ribs and joining, locks inside-out, pins, finish...
All the way down to performance on target.

That pair of rifles definitely looks cool. I'd want to have quite the holiday with them, from stem-to-stern inspection to a good firing evaluation on paper before I committed to any price.
Can you get more photos?
Will the seller negotiate on the price?
Are they calibers that you'd want to hunt with? (I would!!)
Is that case original to the rifles - and are they valuing it at many dollars in the price?
Are there accessories?

Something else I've done with old guns and rifles that I've wanted to own and shoot is 'nondestructive inspection' including X-Ray imaging.





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Newbie Question for you experts. [Re: tinker]
      #182802 - 30/05/11 12:30 PM

I edited my first post to attach the photos and description of the rifles we are discussing.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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tinker
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Re: Newbie Question for you experts. [Re: CptCurl]
      #182808 - 30/05/11 01:15 PM

BTW, I think the 577/500 has been restocked too.
The 450 has issues - but at least it has a story to tell!

For what it's worth, I LIKE rifles with obvious stories lurking behind stock repairs and such - but I won't pay top dollar for them - but I will run them!!







Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Newbie Question for you experts. [Re: tinker]
      #182815 - 30/05/11 04:07 PM

Why are they "cheap"?

Well for starters they are Black Powder Express rifles, not nitro rifles.

I don't think they are cheap BTW at $13,000 each for a black powder rifle at all, actually expensive.

In my mind (out of date?) a single .450 BPE DR should be purchasable for about $5,000. These are .500's but don't see a huge increase in price for .500's over .450's in BPE.

But I'm not buying in the USA either, and haven't seen BPE's priced recently.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (30/05/11 07:34 PM)

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tinker
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Re: Newbie Question for you experts. [Re: NitroX]
      #182851 - 31/05/11 12:30 AM

Nitrox-


One is a 577/500 the other a 500/450
I agree the price is high on the each for what we see, but at tip top condition could be similar or higher.
For instance, try to get Curl's Purdey .500 or his Henry for $13grand!!

These rifles don't look like tip-top pieces to me.



Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
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Re: Newbie Question for you experts. [Re: tinker]
      #182857 - 31/05/11 02:11 AM

I would check with the General but I think they are pricey by European standards, best, Mike

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Omnivorous_Bob
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Reged: 03/10/05
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Re: Newbie Question for you experts. [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #182890 - 31/05/11 06:57 AM

Curl, that's awesome! Thanks for posting those pictures. When you see the skill of craftsmen like that it makes me sad to think how rare that level of attention of detail is today (at non-stratospheric prices). They certainly knew how to build them right.

Bob

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

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