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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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Mike_Johnson
.300 member


Reged: 17/10/09
Posts: 104
Loc: York, Pa
458 Win Mag or 470 NE
      #182006 - 20/05/11 01:49 AM

Always wanted a 470NE but the 458 seems to offer much the same. While I was searching for a 470NE, I came across a 458 that really stirred my interest and hence this post. Thanks in advance for your comments. I plan to start heading to africa/australia every other year. mostly plains game (have the double for that along with the bolt gun) but will probably do Buff hunt in each place so thats why the interest for hunting with a stopping rifle. I do most of other hunting with a rizzini wild express in 9.3x74R. I also have a double rifle in 12 bore, as well as other double shotguns.

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: 458 Win Mag or 470 NE [Re: Mike_Johnson]
      #182007 - 20/05/11 02:14 AM

Mike


Is the .458 a double rifle or a bolt rifle?

Also- I want to see photos of that 12bore double rifle!!

Some folks steer clear of double rifles in the .458 as it's not a flanged cartridge, and there is greater chance of extraction/ejection problems.
We have one member here who's taken dozens of elephant with his .458 double rifle with no trouble whatsoever.

Tell is about the .458!




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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poprivit
.333 member


Reged: 09/04/07
Posts: 398
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
Re: 458 Win Mag or 470 NE [Re: tinker]
      #182013 - 20/05/11 03:57 AM

I've used a 458 Lott on 3 buf - sure does the job and costs less than 1/3 of a 470 to shoot.

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Mike_Johnson
.300 member


Reged: 17/10/09
Posts: 104
Loc: York, Pa
Re: 458 Win Mag or 470 NE [Re: poprivit]
      #182019 - 20/05/11 05:59 AM

I thought the ammo savings would allow me to shoot it a lot more than the 470NE without getting into lots of reloading. the side by side is listed on gunsamerica: http://www.gunsamerica.com/963088668/Gun...458_WIN_MAG.htm

I considered a bolt gun in .458 as more reliable, perhaps a dakota rifle or such. Just made a deal in selling about $8k of some old firearms I have laying around not doing much. So I might could get a Merkel 470NE with not much more money used or get a fantastic bolt rifle straight out. I will post pics of my regulated 12 bore with rifled barrels in another thread. thanks


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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3556
Loc: Colorado
Re: 458 Win Mag or 470 NE [Re: Mike_Johnson]
      #182021 - 20/05/11 06:09 AM

I think the points about ammo and component costs are very valid regarding doubles. Especially in light of the fact that range time and familiarity with your gun and how it handles and shoots is of such importance when going after DG.
If I were looking at .458WM doubles, I would heavily consider the Casartelli at Griffin & Howe.
Looks like a very nice option at $12K.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: 458 Win Mag or 470 NE [Re: Huvius]
      #182044 - 20/05/11 01:48 PM

Mike that Ritterbusch looks fantastic.
Steve Barnett is an absolutely square guy too.

If I were in the market for a .458 boxlock ejector, I'd definitely swing a leg over it for a test drive.
Nice looking rifle with great finish and some cool features...




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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Mike_Johnson
.300 member


Reged: 17/10/09
Posts: 104
Loc: York, Pa
Re: 458 Win Mag or 470 NE [Re: tinker]
      #182071 - 21/05/11 01:11 AM

Tinker I posted pics of the 12 Bore in the bore rifle section.

thanks for the info. Between the two posts, I think I will be looking for a Merkel in 470. Saw a Kreighoff single trigger at a good price but I am unsure about the cocking mechanism? any word or advice on that? Sounds like the .458 in a double has potential problems being non-rimmed so I will just avoid those problems. thanks again


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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: 458 Win Mag or 470 NE [Re: tinker]
      #183077 - 04/06/11 06:59 AM

Quote:

Mike


Is the .458 a double rifle or a bolt rifle?

Also- I want to see photos of that 12bore double rifle!!

Some folks steer clear of double rifles in the .458 as it's not a flanged cartridge, and there is greater chance of extraction/ejection problems.
We have one member here who's taken dozens of elephant with his .458 double rifle with no trouble whatsoever.

Tell is about the .458!




Cheers
Tinker




I agree with Tinker that the 458 Win Mag is not a cartridge well suited to double rifle use! As he states there are folks that have been shooting double rifles chambered for rimless, and belted rimless cartridges for years without a problem. I know who Tinker is referring to that uses a 458WM double rifle to take several elephant without a glitch to date. IMO, however, it is simply a matter of time.

Simply look at this from a dangerous game point of view. The rimless cartridge presents a problem sooner or later in a double rifle, and adding a belt to the mix simply exacerbates the chance of a problem with not only failing to eject/extract, because of a broken pawl leaving an empty in a chamber when you need to reload in a real hurry. In addition the actual loading of the chambers is not simply a drop-in situation, but must be forced over the spring loaded pawl for each chamber negating a simultaneous dropping in two cartridges in the chambers, costing precious time in the re-load in the middle of a fight for your life.

A broken pawl can actually jam the action so the barrels can't be closed, by falling between the extractor and the extractor seat on the barrel.

The double rifles can be bought at a discount simply because of the chambering being for a belted rimless cartridge. Many think this is because of the very high pressure of the cartridge, but a quality double rifle so chambered is built to work fine with the pressure, but reliability at critical times is the worry, for most, and for me always.

With the 458WM chambering all is not lost, however, because it is very easy to re-chamber to 450NE 3 1/4 inch, and rimmed cartridge that was designed for double rifle use, and will do anything that the 458WM will without the worries of the belted-rimless cartridge. In a small double rifle used for deer/elk/moose hunting the belted rimless cartridge is not a real worry, because if something happens all that is lost is a shot at a goaty old deer, but with a elephant, or cape buffalo closing on you fast, stands to have a very different outcome!

Others may do as it suits, it’s a free country at least for now, but I’ll stick with the 470NE over the 458 Win Mag in a double rifle!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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