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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Cast Bullets
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Perry
.275 member


Reged: 09/11/10
Posts: 73
Loc: Qld Australia
Developing my first Home Cast Bullet Loads 35.303 / .357 Mag
      #180974 - 07/05/11 09:44 AM

Morning folks, bear with me, long post, lots of questions and musing's most of which I've discussed addinfinitum with a mate with lots of cast bullet experience but always open to others sharing there experience !!!

I'm confident I have the .357 mag sorted - here's what I'm doing.

At present I'm shooting Westcast .358 158gr RNFP 15gr AR2205 and 180gr RNFP 13.5gr AR2205 from it with excellent accuracy and zero leading. Sure the Westcasts are good value but this is an exercise in greater self sufficiency with my shooting.I have previously established .358 cast projectiles shoot well.

I have a .358 Lee resizing die. My Rossi M92 has .350 Bore / .357 Groove

I'll be pan lubing using homemade lube 200 grams Red Carnuba Wax, 200 grams Bees Wax, 100 grams Parrafin, 100ml ATF. It's a little tacky, it's an unkwown at this stage if it will require stiffening up with a little more Bee's Wax ?? Parrafin ?? Carnuba ???. Any suggestions or experience to share ???

I also have a bottle of Lee ALOX lube. Is it worthwhile lubing with this alone or perhaps lubing with ALOX then pan lubing. Waste of time ??? One or the other ?? I'm drawn to making my own shooting / hunting gear so mixing my own lube holds lots of appeal !!

I am limited just now in projectile choice for the .357 mag to the Ideal .357 446 mould, a plain base SWC. It feeds slickly through my lovely Rossi's action, guess I'll find out soon enough if it will shoot.

With a view to the the plain base projectile I've cast from straight wheel weights I have loaded up only one load at the moment 161gr 357 446 6.7gr of AP70N. Book suggests about 1400 fps, I'll mess about with this load up or down looking for best accuracy and function.

AP70N fills the case well but it does not develop the .357'mags full ballistics. I have another option of AR2205 which is finer grained and at least in my experience is best with stiffer loads. As my lube's performance is unknown at this stage I am leaning towards the slower velocity's the AP70N loads will develop.

I will be buying a mould with a similar design to the Westcasts but Gas Checked for my .357 mag. I'll develop faster hunting loads with AR2205 once I purchase this mould.

35.303 - This is where I am a little patchy

I know I should do a chamber cast and slug my barrel but due to my impatience I have cast projectiles using a borrowed Lyman 358 315 mould and curiousity is killing me as too how well these projectiles will shot. It casts a .359 208 gr gas checked projectile from straight wheel weights.

I am saving at present for a custom mould and do intend to do a chamber cast to determine throat length and slug my barrel to determine bore and groove diameter for the 35.303. I'd like something around 230 gr and be able to replicate my Jacketed loads but this is a way off yet. If the 358 315 projectiles shoot I'll be quite happy and cast up a mess of projectiles to hold me over until I get the custom mould.

I only have AR2208 powder on hand. It fills the case very well. I currently use 44 grains under a 225 grain Sierra Gameking projectile. This load fills the case almost to the base of the case neck and shows zero signs of pressure. It simply struck a sweet spot with the Rifle. No actual chrony numbers but according to Data I have approx 2200 fps.

I was going to start at 38 grains as AR2208 fills the case so well and work up to best accuracy / minimum to zero leading.

If the .358 sizing die proves unsatisfactory I will buy a .359 sizing die and keep the .358 die for my .357. I really should slug my barrel !!!!!!

I often read about loads of pistol type powders being used with Cast Bullets loads and similar cartridges to my 35.303. Usually they talk of Unique or 2400 powder and velocity's in the sub 1800 fps. As I use similar powders for my .357 mag amd .44 mag Lever Rifles there is not just a curiousity factor but a practicality factor also.

I do understand that in the 35.303 these reduced loads could well make my .44 mag redundant. Thats fine, sell it and part finance a 45.90 1874 Sharps replica. Any thoughts on the use of such Powders in cartridges such as my 35.303

I have read and been adviced enough to understand the pro's and cons of fillers. Any thuoghts or experience, always open to these ????

Paper Patching - is this an option for me to achieve my 35.303's full ballistic potential with ??? I have done some research and am intrigued !!!!

Depending on these results I have the .44 mag to develop cast loads for next - barely touched the surface and I'm hooked.

regards Jacko

--------------------
"To my deep mortification my father once said to me, 'You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family.' " -Charles Darwin

Edited by Perry (07/05/11 01:12 PM)

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450_Ackley
.375 member


Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia
Re: Developing my first Home Cast Bullet Loads 35.303 / .357 Mag [Re: Perry]
      #181040 - 08/05/11 06:59 AM

Perry,
I'm glad you are hooking on cast bullets, doesn't take long for the lead to get into your veins hey?
These thoughts are just my own opinion, so you can make of them what you will.

Lee Liquid Alox - is OK for cast bullets around the 1200 or below fps mark, much over that and I've had leading problems. A really good idea though. I use it in my Bore gun and with round ball loads, as it's about the only way to lube them.

I used to make my own lube whan we were commercially making cast handgun bullets for shooters, I remember we added a tube of STP friction proofing to each batch of lube, seemed to work well, we also used a particular grade of Shell grease, but I can't recall the name at the moment, will have to look it up. Most of our customers said it worked well for them.

I'm (sort of) a fan of the faster handgun powders for cast bullets, depends on the calibres and what results you are after. Most of the time, cast bullets to me are a lighter practice load around the 1500-1600 fps mark, and pistol powders can do that pretty well.
I've never used fillers in any calibre, and never will in the calibres I currently shoot. This is not to say they have their place in the big NE cartridges, as they most likely do. For me they haven't been needed.
I've never paper patched anything, but some recent posts here have had me wanting to give them a try.

Many other more experienced casters on here can also offer their suggestions on that.

Regards,
David.

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Perry
.275 member


Reged: 09/11/10
Posts: 73
Loc: Qld Australia
Re: Developing my first Home Cast Bullet Loads 35.303 / .357 Mag [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #181234 - 10/05/11 09:02 PM

Thanks for replying Ackley. I'll put aside the Alox for now. I'm do think the lube I mixed is a tad soft - I'll stiffen it up. I have also decided to try some of that Blue Lube, forget the name just now but I've read and been told it works good for +2000 fps loads

In reference to the Shell brand / type of grease I've also been told that Lithium and Lanolin based grease is a good additive.

On Sunday evening I loaded up a few rounds of 35.303 with the load I mentioned earlier 38gr of AR2208 208gr Lyman 358315 CCI primers. Far as I can cross reference they should be traveling around 2000 fps, maybe a bit quicker- I guess I'll find out on Sunday when I shoot em if they will lead or shoot well. I am just a little shy about loading the case down to much more. I'd guess it's 65% full, not enough for the powder to fall away from the primer but a couple of grains less and I'd be leary. A while ago if my memory serves me correctly I measured a 57 gr water capacity.

I also borrowed a 13th reprint edition of Lyman's Cast Bullets Handbook at listed loads for the .358 Winchester as my 35.303 roughly equals it. They list 14.5 gr of Unique as a max load. It is a pretty handy Powder for me as the load data I have suggest's it will work a treat in my .357 and .44 mags. So having 1 powder potentially for 3 cartridges appeals on a practicality level

First thought I have is that 1500 or 1600 fps with a 208 gr cast proj is a waste with the 35.303 as it falls within my .44 mag's ballistics. I only have these 208 gr proj because a chap was generous enough to loan me a mould. In a little while I'll be buying a mould that throws a heavier cast bullet - maybe I should just wait a little while longer

2nd thought is how does 14 grains of a pistol powder reliably stay up against the primer without the use of fillers in cartridges such as my 35.303. Am I wondering about the potential for strife unneccesarily

3rd thought, I already have some AR2205. Does anybody have any experience with it in Rifle Cartridges and Cast bullets

regards Jacko

--------------------
"To my deep mortification my father once said to me, 'You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family.' " -Charles Darwin

Edited by Perry (10/05/11 09:07 PM)

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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Developing my first Home Cast Bullet Loads 35.303 / .357 Mag [Re: Perry]
      #181240 - 11/05/11 12:32 AM

I don't know anything about the Aussie pistol powders. Some of the pistol powders we have on this side of the world, are position insensitive - doesn't matter where they are in the case, they work. That is for the VERY fast powders - usually.

As the burning rate decreases, they must be in contact with the primer and therefore fillers must be used. Word of caution about fillers, they must fill the space between the powder and the bullet so there is no shifting, sifting, or other problems to develop.

A soft lube will probably work for light loads only - as long as it doesn't get runny with high temps. Beeswax is normally used to stiffen the mix. I've never made up any elaborate lubes before - I haven't needed them. for my rifle loads, I've used either the nromal 50/50 Alox/Beeswax commercial lube, or LBT Blue. Teh LBT took over when the comercial standard, failed due to too soft a bullet or too high a speed. With Blue, I was able to make 2,800fps (hardened and tempered WW) with a 275gr. cast bullet in a .375H&H without leading and with descent accuracy - at those speeds, it is the only game(lube) I know of that will work.

The bullets were oven hardened to approximately Brinel 34 (10F lower than slumping), then tempered to about Brinel 22.

Bullet hardness is matched closely with load pressure. You need a bullet that only "Just" becomes ductile at the pressure you are shooting. I was merely fishing in the dark and ran into success through experimentation.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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