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Hunting >> Hunting in Africa & hunting dangerous game
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mbogo
.224 member


Reged: 21/05/04
Posts: 15
Africa's Future
      #18012 - 16/08/04 09:39 AM

I am an avid hunter but more importantly, I am a passionate conservationist. What is the current status of the elephant population and the ivory genetics in Africa? With one hundred pounders no longer around are we continuing to shoot out what genetics we have left? I am also concerned with lion. In some areas, especially in southern Tanzania, the large flowing manes are becoming less and less prominant. The good old days of Africa have dwindled since the days of Wally Johnson, but will they be non-existant in years to come?

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shakari
.400 member


Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: Africa's Future [Re: mbogo]
      #18062 - 17/08/04 04:00 AM

That's a tough one, but IMO although the gene pool is smaller than it was 150 years ago, it's still plenty big enough. Elephant populations generally are increasing, and the biggest problem is that many countries don't have the courage to defy the stupidity of the political correctness of the western world and manage their herds properly with proper responsible culling and management programmes.

There are still 100 pounders around in plenty of places......but they're expensive to hunt, and by the time they get to that kind of size many are past breeding age anyway. so perhaps there's a valid argument for taking these animals out of the equation and allowing the younger, fitter bulls to breed rather than expend energy in fighting the OAPs

Lions are another problem, and I would say that the Selous Lions (particularly) lack of mane is probably genetic, but I doubt there is any proof whatsoever that this has been affected by hunting. Lack of mane can also be caused by many other factors such as type and thickness of bush and indeed weather and habitiat, there is one area (I think in Zambia) where the Lions spend a lot of their time in or close to swamps & open water. This has caused them to develop much thicker coats and heavier manes than normal. I would guess that a considerable amount of money, expertise and man hours would need to be spent in study before blame could be allocated for shortness of mane.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Edited by shakari (17/08/04 04:09 AM)

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EricD
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Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: Africa's Future [Re: mbogo]
      #18065 - 17/08/04 07:29 AM

In reply to:

The good old days of Africa have dwindled since the days of Wally Johnson, but will they be non-existant in years to come?




I'd say from my limited knowlegde, that in the bigger picture, the relativly little tourist/sport hunting that is done nowadays will have no affect on genetics in african wildlife. Poaching, bushmeat hunting, and "do-it-yourself PAC" done by locals is probably a bigger problem.

I would think that the masses of big ivory that was taken out in the "good old days" had a much larger long term affect since the quantities were so tremendous.

Perhaps someone with more info can tell us what percentage of the elephant population is taken out yearly in a variety of southern african countries? I bet it's a lot less then is taken out of our northern Deer, Moose etc. About 10% of the moose population in Norway is taken out per year. Botswanas 130.000 large ele population is definatly not reduced every year by 13.000! Thus, I would presume that a lot of "good genes" are still wandering around in non hunting areas. It's maybe just that most of the big guys aren't seen by hunters in hunting areas. At least I've seen decent tusks in both Botswana (Okovango), Tanzania (Serengetti and Ngorogoro) and Uganda (Murchinson Falls).

Erik D.

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39877
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Africa's Future [Re: mbogo]
      #18076 - 17/08/04 10:14 AM

In reply to:

With one hundred pounders no longer around are we continuing to shoot out what genetics we have left?



They are still around, or at least pretty damned close to 100 pounders.

In reply to:

In some areas, especially in southern Tanzania, the large flowing manes are becoming less and less prominant.



Have a look at those manes from canned South African hunts. They still exist in quality and quantity. If there is an issue in the wild, perhaps the "raised" lions could be used to re-seed the population with the right genes. But perhaps it is also environmental influences.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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atkinson6
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: Africa's Future [Re: NitroX]
      #18697 - 31/08/04 08:10 AM

I agre with steve, there are stil those 100 pounders around and they just keep popping up...

There are areas in trouble in Africa, and Africa is not doing well, but she is tough and seems to hang on in spite of evil and greed men who continue to compromise her....

I am all for canned Lion Hunting, it is a means of conserving our poor populations of wild lions, as long as the jet set keeps shooting canned Lions, the old wild boys have a chance at survival...More power to those who sell and hunt canned Lions...

Sometimes we in the states just don't grasp the whole story and let emotions rule our decision making...

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mikeh416Rigby
.450 member


Reged: 24/02/03
Posts: 6051
Loc: The beautiful Oley Valley, PA....
Re: Africa's Future [Re: mbogo]
      #18704 - 31/08/04 11:21 AM

Africa has only two problems. Too many people, and massive habitat loss. Nature, (human & mother), will sort out both over time.

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