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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Cast Bullets
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mauserand9mm
.400 member


Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 1039
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Re: 416 cast bullets [Re: DarylS]
      #179480 - 20/04/11 09:21 AM

The loads that work in my rifle (limited experimentation I guess and I'm using "ready rolled" off the shelf hard cast coated projectiles - Westcastings brand, non-gascheck style, rated to 1700fps max) are 405gn @ 1050fps and 500gn @ 1600fps (according to load data, I don't have a chrono - Santa hasn't been that kind to me yet).

I've used the 500gns on pigs (less than 20yards away) and they all exited in one way or other - small hole if they avoided bone or big hole if they encountered bone, but they certainly did the job quickly. I'm thinking now that the 405gn may also have done the job - but I only used these on rabbits. Penetration on rabbits was good

I've tried the 500gns with Trailboss (for 800-900fps?) but half of them were completely sideways on the target at 100yds. Grouping was 7MOA even with the sideways ones included - that's probably still okay accuracy for pigs at 25yards

Sorry for the thread highjack.

Edited by mauserand9mm (20/04/11 09:28 AM)

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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: 416 cast bullets [Re: DarylS]
      #179492 - 20/04/11 11:13 AM

Quote:

Absolutely no reason why a cast bullet, and it certainly would not need to be cast hard, would not work well for deer sized game. . .



I can attest to that! More than a few occasions.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 416 cast bullets [Re: CptCurl]
      #179534 - 21/04/11 12:47 AM

15.0gr. Trail Boss for me with cast bullets in my little 35" bld. .45/60 Sharps gives same accuracy with fairly hard cast 385gr. GCRN's as BlackPowder with 506gr. and 525gr. bullets. The velocity is 1,100fps with the light bullets and 1,180fps using Black Powder with heavy ones.

Every rifle I've tried it in has liked it, so far.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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209jones
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Reged: 29/05/11
Posts: 13
Loc: Calgary AB
Re: 416 cast bullets [Re: DarylS]
      #183176 - 07/06/11 03:37 AM

Finding this info of Daryl's quite interesting in that I am putting together a load for the 450-400 3" at present. I have a Saeco 400gr .410 mould on the way to start with and was planning on starting with Trailboss loads in it to get a feel for what I could do with this gun. Once I have the sizing and lube sorted out I want to use a 300 and a 350 LBT LFN with GC to see what they can be taken to in this unit. The one area of concern I have with using cast is powder capacity of the case vs what powder volumes I can work with in this case. I really am on the fence about fillers, don't see anything out there that is really bad, but, enough cautionary stuff to make me waffle a bit on using any, as I suspect they will be req'd for the gascheck loads. I am under the impression that I will need 80% volume filled to be safe without fillers, which I believe can be obtained with slow powders like the 4831's or slower. Just not sure what the results on a cast bullet will be. The part that makes me leery is having to reduce the loads to use the cast bullets. If I can keep the velocities down to the 1800-2100 or a hair less mark with an 80%+ type load, life will be simple, I think.
Main concern is if I need to go to faster powders to make it work. There is some data on www.grurifrasca.net on the faster powders, all with 400gr slugs, jacketed style. Not sure how some of those may translate to the lighter bullet vs speed and the need for fillers would be there also.

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bwanabobftw
.375 member


Reged: 29/12/04
Posts: 675
Loc: Texas
Re: 416 cast bullets [Re: 209jones]
      #183190 - 07/06/11 10:05 AM

209jones,
You might try some "41 mag" pistol bullets for a low recoil load . I used to shoot .41 cal. cast bullets in a .405 win. double. Don't remember the load , but it was pretty close to my regular load with 300 grain bullets and it regulated pretty good.
Let me know if you work up a good "practice load" for your 450/400 . I have a 3" and a 3 1/4" , would love to have a cheap practice load.
Good Luck !!!!
Robert

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DarylSModerator
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Re: 416 cast bullets [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #183226 - 08/06/11 01:59 AM

Acording to last year's Annual Mannual by Hodgdon, Trail Boss can be used in virtually all modern 'nitro' guns. In the .45/70 tested, a 405gr. bullet developed a high of 25,600 CUP (PSI)(identical #'s in the .45/70 and many straight cases)at a mere 1,007fps.

The highest pressure recorded by Hodgdon in testing was in one of the .300 mags, with a 180gr. jacketed bullet and a full case of powder - not-compressed (do not compress it) at 36,000PSI and a velocity of 1,700fps.

Some of the small bore shooters (.17's or .20's) are recording speeds over 2,000fps - so perhaps they are compressing it. My .17AH would produce only 1,745fps with a max load of 3.7gr.

I would not hesitate to use it in anything I own- having ued it in the .45/60, .375/06IMP and the .17AH, with jacketed bullets only in the .17 cal., which produced the highest velocity and pressure, which was evident by the almost perfect case forming that resulted. I suspect pressures well over 35,000 to 40,000CUP as it takes that much pressure to properly form the brass without cracking the shoulders. TYhey cannot be formed with light pressure.

Full case to the bottom of a seated bullet is the max load. 70% of that is a starting load. Simple rules for simple loading.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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450_Ackley
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Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia
Re: 416 cast bullets [Re: DarylS]
      #183231 - 08/06/11 05:58 AM

I've found Trailboss seems to work better in bottlenecked cases than straight walled ones, maybe more "boiler room" (in relation to bullet diameter) = more powder = more velocity.
I have used it in my 500 Jeffery behind a 500 grain cast bullet with good results.
On the weekend I also tried some in a 416 Ruger, with 23.5 grains giving a 340 grain LBT bullet a speed of 1375 fps.

For a good plinking type load, I doubt you could go past it.

Regards,
David.

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: 416 cast bullets [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #183232 - 08/06/11 06:30 AM

I wonder how it would do in the 450no2 3-1/2" with 350gr bullets.





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
Posts: 1119
Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: 416 cast bullets [Re: tinker]
      #183233 - 08/06/11 06:55 AM

I use Red Dot in my 404 Jeffery where 20gns gets me 1400fps witha 350GC. Good accuracy and a great plinking load.

Von Gruff.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

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DarylSModerator
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 416 cast bullets [Re: VonGruff]
      #183235 - 08/06/11 10:56 AM

I know it sounds like a lot of powder, ie: 70% starting load to 100% of loading density for max load, however TB is so very light though, and 'fluffy' fairly large donuts of powder.

I'm sure the #2 will shoot it just fine.

In the .375/06IMP, a full case drove my 310gr. plain base bullet to 1,380fps - bit more powerful than a black powder .38/55 load.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Rule303
.450 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 5061
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: 416 cast bullets [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #194072 - 18/11/11 10:38 PM

It is about time I posted up some results of the Cast projectiles in 416 that 450Ackley very kindly sent me.

I used 32 or 33 grains of Trail boss in the Rigby. All groups were shot at 50mts using a peep sight on my CZ550.










I have shoot all the different styles David sent but lost the photos of the groups. I shot these 2 groups today. The 3rd group using the 415grain NEI 416-380-6c(not shown) was fairly lousy but some of thsat can be attributed to me. MV for these was 1460fps.

The 350 grain LBT 417-340-LFN MV 1530fps

The 306grian NEI 416-290 MV 1647fps. These also shoot a good group. Will have to redo so I can post some pics.

450Ackley thanks again, much appreciated.

Cheers

Greg

Edited by CptCurl (20/03/12 11:54 AM)

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