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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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roughshooter
.224 member


Reged: 06/03/11
Posts: 3
Loc: Europe
Single or Double trigger in these modern times ?
      #176717 - 07/03/11 05:10 AM

Dear Members,

I have posted this on another forum but I am also interested in the opinions of the members here. As a prospective Double rifle owner I value the opinions of those who have hunted dangerous game with them.

Dear Gentlemen,

I am considering certain factors prior to ordering my first double rifle.

I note that the general concensus is that a double trigger is better because if the mechanism fails you are not left with a 10lb club. I fully understand this reasoning but given that surely most hunting these days for dangerous game is done in company with at least one other person, i.e a Professional Hunter who is naturally armed, is the double trigger still a requirement ?

I further note that John 'Pondoro' Taylor failed to see the need for double triggers on a quality gun (notably the Westley Richards) and suggested that a single trigger is better as it allows an even quicker second shot without the need to move ones hand. Taylor cited James Sutherland as using nothing but a single trigger Westley Richards and having shot over 1000 elephants with it.

Is the double trigger still as valid as it was or is it still used extensively owing to tradition ?

Your thourghts please.

Regards Craig.

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Single or Double trigger in these modern times ? [Re: roughshooter]
      #176719 - 07/03/11 06:05 AM

Craig,

Good question. As most men here probably shoot skeet with an over under shotgun the speed of the single trigger is noteworthy. Furthermore, I have never had a failure or "double" of my Berreta shotgun.

However, the double rifle is another beast entirely. Think of it as two independent rifles on one stock. A single trigger, no matter how perfectly engineered, is still linked to the other. The most common mode of failure with a single trigger is doubling. With a double trigger you always have at least a single shot rifle.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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Yochanan
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/03
Posts: 912
Loc: Volksdiktatur Schweden
Re: Single or Double trigger in these modern times ? [Re: bonanza]
      #176720 - 07/03/11 06:14 AM

Double triggers! Simple! Provided you have loaded the double with one solid and one soft bullet. With double triggers you can, at split second notice, decide which type of bullet to fire.

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Single or Double trigger in these modern times ? [Re: Yochanan]
      #176721 - 07/03/11 06:43 AM


Double.

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CHAPUISARMES
.416 member


Reged: 16/01/08
Posts: 2908
Loc: DUBBO, NSW, AUSTRALIA
Re: Single or Double trigger in these modern times ? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #176722 - 07/03/11 07:16 AM


Double Triggers for sure.

.

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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Single or Double trigger in these modern times ? [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #176724 - 07/03/11 07:38 AM

It's a double barreled single shot with 1 trigger for each tube.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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roughshooter
.224 member


Reged: 06/03/11
Posts: 3
Loc: Europe
Re: Single or Double trigger in these modern times ? [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #176725 - 07/03/11 07:39 AM

Ok so far most people prefer double triggers....but other than member 'bonanza' (thank you) does anybody care to elaborate as to why ?

If a quality mechanism is used is a double discharge still likely ?

Beleive me my mind is absolutely 50/50 on this one so opinions do count.

Regards Craig.

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CHAPUISARMES
.416 member


Reged: 16/01/08
Posts: 2908
Loc: DUBBO, NSW, AUSTRALIA
Re: Single or Double trigger in these modern times ? [Re: roughshooter]
      #176727 - 07/03/11 07:58 AM

Hi Craig,

I have also done some Trap shooting and yes, the shotgun had a single trigger. But consider this, the Double Rifle was designed on the basis of two rifles in one, now let's say that it was not the actual rifle that had the problem but the cartridge failed to go off on the first shot ?? as the single trigger relies on inertia to reset the second trigger you are up the creek with no paddle.

It doesn't matter when you have the second trigger, you just move the finger and your still in the game. That's just my opinion.

Cheers,

Jeff Gray

.

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Single or Double trigger in these modern times ? [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #176728 - 07/03/11 08:09 AM

Not to overstate the point, the double rifle is TWO rifles on one stock. The SxS or O/U shotgun is to shoot two birds, not take a second shot normally.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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crkennedy1
.375 member


Reged: 05/12/08
Posts: 501
Loc: Utah
Re: Single or Double trigger in these modern times ? [Re: bonanza]
      #176729 - 07/03/11 09:29 AM

My Harley has two tires, my arrows have three fletchings, my cat has nine lifes and my double has two triggers - don't mess with mother nature!

--------------------
DOUBLE or NOTHING

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roughshooter
.224 member


Reged: 06/03/11
Posts: 3
Loc: Europe
Re: Single or Double trigger in these modern times ? [Re: crkennedy1]
      #176733 - 07/03/11 09:59 AM

Dear All,

I think this has answered my question and convinced me one way or the other. The two deciding factors were...

1. ... now let's say that it was not the actual rifle that had the problem but the cartridge failed to go off on the first shot ?? as the single trigger relies on inertia to reset the second trigger you are up the creek with no paddle.

2. ...the double rifle is TWO rifles on one stock.


Not meaning to sound psycophantic but those two comments alone have convinced me which way to go.

Thank you Bonanza and Jeff Gray...its double all the way !

I feel I may well enjoy this here forum.

Regards Craig.

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CHAPUISARMES
.416 member


Reged: 16/01/08
Posts: 2908
Loc: DUBBO, NSW, AUSTRALIA
Re: Single or Double trigger in these modern times ? [Re: roughshooter]
      #176737 - 07/03/11 12:44 PM

Hi Craig,

I am glad to be of help, now that's one down, the rest of the population to follow.... Just Joking.

.

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mauserand9mm
.400 member


Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 1072
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Re: Single or Double trigger in these modern times ? [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #176738 - 07/03/11 12:55 PM

Well the decision has been made but just to reinforce the arguement: if you miss with the first shot and have problems with the inertia trigger preventing the second shot, at least a duck won't pound you into the earth.

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 40574
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Single or Double trigger in these modern times ? [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #176739 - 07/03/11 01:18 PM

Double triggers. For barrel selection and insurance.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DDouble
.300 member


Reged: 17/02/06
Posts: 131
Loc: Brazil
Re: Single or Double trigger in these modern times ? [Re: NitroX]
      #176755 - 07/03/11 10:45 PM

well, I train shooting around 500-800 shots a week with my Perazzi and after 100.000 shots through my 1972made Perazzi I have never seen a failure of the shotgun mechanism itself. The same for about 10 guys with Perazzis in my club.

However, I have seen one Perazzi trigger group that doubled regularly owned by a friend (it tends to happen in those trigger groups with a selective mechanism - so yes, you could switch from soft to solid...).

But another common failure is different: the shooter shoots the first shot and does not take the finger all the way back and the second shot doesnt fire. In a split second he can ease the finger and shoot, but mental disabilities common in this situation could be a problem...

Both my double have double triguers... and I have on Beretta shotgun with them which I like to use before our buffalo hunts around here...

--------------------
Ddouble

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Dutch44
.275 member


Reged: 23/02/06
Posts: 80
Loc: Missouri
Re: Single or Double trigger in these modern times ? [Re: DDouble]
      #176766 - 08/03/11 04:52 AM

Although my doubles all have 2 triggers if I were to have WR build a new one for me today then it would have a single trigger. If it was good enough for Jim Sutherland it is certainly good enough for me.


Dutch

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27628
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Single or Double trigger in these modern times ? [Re: Dutch44]
      #176768 - 08/03/11 04:54 AM

I like the double triggers.


--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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577500WR
.275 member


Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 58
Loc: Anchorage, AK
Re: Single or Double trigger in these modern times ? [Re: DarylS]
      #176771 - 08/03/11 05:27 AM

Nitro X has it right. Double triggers are the way to go for several reasons. None of those reasons in my mind are that it is more traditional (even though it is). It is more for safety and to allow you a chance to get off a second shot under pressure.

A friend of mine told me a story of having a big brown bear pop up in front of him while deer hunting. His partner raised his lever action rifle and shucked all of his shells onto the ground. He thought he was shooting the bear...mistake. This is a great example of what pressure can make you do.

577500WR

--------------------
Most folks nowadays think talking about guns is a perversity. I view the old guns as being a record of the industrial revolution transforming the ordinary into high art and functionality.

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Single or Double trigger in these modern times ? [Re: 577500WR]
      #176777 - 08/03/11 07:09 AM

Two chambers, two barrels, two sets of lockwork - I'm fine with all that on one action in one stock, under one set of sights -- but I want two independent triggers.

I like the concept (and facility) of two relatively separate and complete systems in the same double rifle.







Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Single or Double trigger in these modern times ? [Re: tinker]
      #176780 - 08/03/11 07:18 AM

My biggest gripe with the double rifle is the flimsy wrist. If your stock cracks, 7 barrels would be useless!

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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bigmaxx
.375 member


Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: Single or Double trigger in these modern times ? [Re: bonanza]
      #176787 - 08/03/11 08:07 AM

Double trigger for me.

--------------------
One day at a time...

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: Single or Double trigger in these modern times ? [Re: bigmaxx]
      #176789 - 08/03/11 08:18 AM

The only single triggers I have not seen fail on one occasion or another were top end italians and since they are all inertia that rules them out for double rifles in DG scenario. a Boss single trigger for example has about 36 different parts.....you´d need to be mad to consider it. I don´t care if Jim Sutherland claimed never to have had a problem with his Westley single trigger, I´ve seen someone who did ! best, Mike

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Single or Double trigger in these modern times ? [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #176824 - 08/03/11 10:23 PM

If I remember correctly, BRNO used to make an O/U DR/combination gun/shotgun with a double trigger mechanism (ZH 300). However, if you pulled the rear trigger twice, both barrels fired, making it, in effect, a single trigger. It would seem fairly simple to apply the same principle to the front trigger, giving the shooter an instant choice of which barrel fired first, without having to change triggers between shots.

I have no idea how complicated and fragile this mechanism was, but it's at least food for thought.

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