Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: DR for DG and all round Big Game

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***
You are not logged in. [Login] Main Index · Search · Active Topics
New user · Who's Online · FAQ · Calendar

Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Pages: 1
Bonde
.333 member


Reged: 16/02/06
Posts: 278
Loc: Norway
DR for DG and all round Big Game
      #175891 - 21/02/11 12:02 AM

I've just parted with m Merkel .470, and has been looking into getting one of Peters C-class doubles in .450/.400.

I've read a lot on this forum about caliber choices etc, which has given me second thoughts..

I hunt moose, and some deer in Norway. I will, when my economy allows, hunt elephant. Preferably PAC and tuskless. Hopefully I'll afford a second trip some time later too..
Based on this I found the .400 bore to be the smartest choice.

However.. I've read that quite a few have reloaded their ,450s with lighter bullets and managed a regulation load with them as well. That possibility seem very attractive to me, to hunt elephant with a fully loadet 500grs .45, while practicing and shooting lighter game with a 350-400grs bullet with lighter recoil? Is that a good idea only on paper, or..?

The reason I sold my Merkel was twofold: First, the stock was slightly low and short. I occasionally got my thumb in my nose.. It also belted me a wee bit more than I liked, and did from time to time give me a headache after shooting a few rounds. I think that could've been cured wit a better stock shape for me?
I also found the open sights to e rather useless.
In total it wouldve been a considerable cost to get it fixed to my specs.
I'd rather sell it and put my $$ into a different double that fits well.

I also would like to have a scope mounted, preferrably a 1,5-5x20. The stock should be fitted correctly for use without the scope.

Based on this, which caliber would You advice med to get?

.450/.400 or .450?

--------------------
------------------------------------------------------
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Yochanan
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/03
Posts: 912
Loc: Volksdiktatur Schweden
Re: DR for DG and all round Big Game [Re: Bonde]
      #175917 - 21/02/11 06:30 AM

Demas/Chapius double in 375 flanged with a stock made to your measures. 350 or 300 grain Woodleigh fmj for elephants (you will hunting as client, backed up by PH therefore no need for a big gun) 375 flanged is far "better" choice for bears, moose, wild boars, leopard and large plainsgame. H&N makes a nice cast copperwashed bullets for practise. Ordering a gun with two sets of barrels? 375 flanged and 7x65R?

Option no2. Prowl the used market and see what you can find.

Where the actions and barrels for Peters doubles manufactured? Considering the small qty etc. resale value may not be fantastic.

Cheers

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: DR for DG and all round Big Game [Re: Yochanan]
      #175918 - 21/02/11 06:42 AM

I shoot alot of 350's in my 450 NE's and the 500/450 NE as well They regulate well using Tony's (450 NE #2)75% rule.
That is a bullet of 75% weight from the regulated bullet weight and full powder charge. It works well!

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bonde
.333 member


Reged: 16/02/06
Posts: 278
Loc: Norway
Re: DR for DG and all round Big Game [Re: AkMike]
      #175921 - 21/02/11 07:25 AM

Same powder charge as for a full bulletweight that is?

The .450 case isn't to bad when it coems to modern propellants either..

There is also another interesting rifle for sale here in Norway:

http://www.finn.no/finn/torget/tilsalgs/annonse?finnkode=21939630

This rifle has a somewhat special action, but apparently it has a very good balance!
I can't say it's very pretty, and it is totally different to what I'm looking at when it comes to Peters rifles.

Yochanan: I suppose resale value depends on the makers name. Peter knows his trade, so I trust him to make a good double. I also believe he'll have created his own name as a gunmaker within a few years.

When I get a well fitted double I want to keep it for my grandchildren to have one day. In the meantime I'll make sure it gets plenty of use! (I'm 31, so have a few years left for that)

About the scope: Is scoping a .450 a silly thing to do, or will it make my rifle more versatile? I don't want to end up with a new double that stand in the cabinet collecting dust...

A scope is probably more in place on a .400 class double..

--------------------
------------------------------------------------------
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: DR for DG and all round Big Game [Re: Bonde]
      #175923 - 21/02/11 07:43 AM

That's corect Bonde.
Here's a copy and paste from one of Tony's posts here explaining it better that I did. I've used it in several rifles and it works very well.

"I am the one that rediscovered the 75% rule.

You use a bullet that is as close as you can get to 75% the weight of the full power bullet and use the SAME powder charge."

I like the sculptured breech of those barrels! Nicely done!
And the $12,676.86 isn't bad either

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ozhunter
.400 member


Reged: 18/08/04
Posts: 1692
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Re: DR for DG and all round Big Game [Re: AkMike]
      #175949 - 21/02/11 03:40 PM

450/400 with "QD" scope mounts.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hunter_angler
.300 member


Reged: 24/03/10
Posts: 104
Loc: Grand Marais, Michigan (home i...
Re: DR for DG and all round Big Game [Re: ozhunter]
      #175999 - 22/02/11 06:39 AM

I would say go with a .450/400 NE, probably still the best all-rounder rimmed cartridge. The .375's may shoot a bit flatter, but DR hunting tends to be more up close and personal. I like the extra cross sectional area and bullet weight of the .400 Jeffery when DG may be in the offing. The 400 gr bullets have great SD as well.

--------------------
Semper Paratus

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: DR for DG and all round Big Game [Re: AkMike]
      #176000 - 22/02/11 06:47 AM

Quote:

That's corect Bonde.
Here's a copy and paste from one of Tony's posts here explaining it better that I did. I've used it in several rifles and it works very well.

"I am the one that rediscovered the 75% rule.




Who said "I am the one that rediscovered the 75% rule." ?

Very interesting comment.

When was that ?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: DR for DG and all round Big Game [Re: 500Nitro]
      #176001 - 22/02/11 06:49 AM

Tony, aka 450 NE #2 is the one that I did the copy paste from.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: DR for DG and all round Big Game [Re: AkMike]
      #176002 - 22/02/11 07:06 AM

.375 flanged with QD mounts anyday as the all round double, with my limited experience, best, Mike

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: DR for DG and all round Big Game [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #176003 - 22/02/11 07:10 AM

500N
Here's the quote from Tony, NE450 #2


http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....true#Post161219

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: DR for DG and all round Big Game [Re: AkMike]
      #176006 - 22/02/11 08:17 AM

Quote:

500N
Here's the quote from Tony, NE450 #2
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....true#Post161219



How did he RE DISCOVER it ?

It's been in use for years - at least over here in Aus.

Just asking, not trying to start a ....... you know what.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: DR for DG and all round Big Game [Re: 500Nitro]
      #176007 - 22/02/11 08:27 AM

LMAO.. I don't have a clue!
I've seen him post this many times so I tried it and it works! Since he's the one that I've seen post it,I attributed it to him.

Don't kill the messenger..

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: DR for DG and all round Big Game [Re: AkMike]
      #176009 - 22/02/11 09:11 AM

Quote:

LMAO.. I don't have a clue!
Don't kill the messenger..



I won't !!! LOL

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39883
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: DR for DG and all round Big Game [Re: 500Nitro]
      #176020 - 22/02/11 02:27 PM

Quote:

Quote:

500N
Here's the quote from Tony, NE450 #2
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....true#Post161219



How did he RE DISCOVER it ?

It's been in use for years - at least over here in Aus.

Just asking, not trying to start a ....... you know what.



Tony B (450 no 2 NE) certainly is the person I heard the idea/rule from, and he has been the chief (only) promoter of the concept on the net at least.

He introduced it to me, by saying something like, this is what the old dr ammo makers used to do etc.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: DR for DG and all round Big Game [Re: NitroX]
      #176021 - 22/02/11 02:42 PM


Thanks John,

Interesting.

I'll ask some of the older school (ie those in Aus who started to use DR's back in the 70's and 80's) when they started doing it.

It will be interesting to know.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39883
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: DR for DG and all round Big Game [Re: Bonde]
      #176022 - 22/02/11 03:39 PM

Quote:

I've just parted with m Merkel .470, and has been looking into getting one of Peters C-class doubles in .450/.400.

I've read a lot on this forum about caliber choices etc, which has given me second thoughts..

I hunt moose, and some deer in Norway. I will, when my economy allows, hunt elephant. Preferably PAC and tuskless. Hopefully I'll afford a second trip some time later too..
Based on this I found the .400 bore to be the smartest choice.



I think if 99% of your hunting will be moose and deer, a .375 Flanged with a QD low powered scope would be the the way to go.

A .400 also with the option of a low powered scope would provide a little more assurance if hunting buffalo and elephant.

A .450 is in my opinion (limited as it is) is getting to be within the minimum of a TRUE dangerous game DR. IMO DG DRs START at the .450, another step up at the .500, and then serious DG DRs start at the .577 and above.

The medium bores such as .375 to sub-.450 do the job well 95% of the time, but lack the assurance of the .450+.

So a .450 with the option of scope mounts, shooting a 350 gr bullet for thin skinned game and a 480 gr for DG or larger game would also be an option. With the negative of more rifle weight and recoil when hunting moose and deer with it at home.

To sum up IMO:

.375 better for most of your hunting at home.

.450 better for the DG part.

.400 compromise.

All will work IMO.



I myself would like a modern .400 with QD scope for exactly the same purposes, hunting plains game in Africa, possibly with certain limitations, but also being a reasonable calibre for buffalo and elephant and the like. And also being able to be used at home for hunting medium game when I feel like it.


Quote:


I also found the open sights to e rather useless.



So its not tapped for QD mounts?

Also I'm guessing it has the standard Merkel rear sight instead of the much more useful shallow V?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bonde
.333 member


Reged: 16/02/06
Posts: 278
Loc: Norway
Re: DR for DG and all round Big Game [Re: NitroX]
      #176023 - 22/02/11 04:42 PM

Thanks for summing up NitroX.

It was one of the older Merkels, std Merkel sights, straight stock though, but a wee bit too low for even open sights. The stock dropped too much, making the recoil go more up into the chin.. Fitting a scope on that rifle probably would've made it worse.

The prospect og getting a DR with true classic look, with shallow v, light compact detachable scope very much appeals to me.

I reckon I can live with the extra weight and recoil as long as it is well fitted.

I'll use the double when hunting in the bush, so range Will be limited to under 100m, perhaps occasionally 150m. A scoped .450 would probably do that fairly well?

I also have to mention that I have a 9,3mm too.

--------------------
------------------------------------------------------
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JabaliHunter
.400 member


Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: DR for DG and all round Big Game [Re: Bonde]
      #176106 - 24/02/11 04:39 AM

How about a .450 and an extra set of .450/.400 barrels?!

Ok, I've thought about this and for me it would be the .450 and for a similar reason, it would complement a .375 or 9,3 for a very useful safari setup. And as you say, a lighter bullet could be used for moose or general hunting and practice (e.g. 360gr as per so-called '75% rule'). That's the way I'd go, for what its worth!

The alternative would be a 9,3x74 DR for all-round hunting with a double and a .458 lott b/a if/when you do go after elephant.... They would also complement each other well on safari.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: DR for DG and all round Big Game [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #176115 - 24/02/11 05:38 AM


450 and 450/400 I think are too close together.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
577500WR
.275 member


Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 58
Loc: Anchorage, AK
Re: DR for DG and all round Big Game [Re: 500Nitro]
      #176139 - 24/02/11 12:54 PM

I am going with a 450 NE. You can regulate with 480 or 500 grain bullets, drop bullet weight by 25% and still be regulated. A 25% increase in bullet weight over the 450/400 is a big step in the right direction. You also have a lot of bullet choices you can play around with. I cannot say the same about a .500 caliber rifle.

I shoot a 450/400 right now and it is sweet. A 400 grain bullet will be fine for moose, etc. I have downloaded it with 300 grain bullets and it is a lot of fun. Like most large calibers...most fun when shot standing!

I have not hunted elephant but think in most cases this caliber 450/400 3.25" would suffice. I would not think twice to pop one with a 450 NE and have a really good feeling that a dead elephant will be dropping to the ground. I do not want be chased by an wounded elephant. As my hunting partner says, "Shoot them with a big bullet to let the cold air in and the warm blood out." To me, that would be a 450 NE when it comes to African BIG GAME.

Cheers,

Matt

--------------------
Most folks nowadays think talking about guns is a perversity. I view the old guns as being a record of the industrial revolution transforming the ordinary into high art and functionality.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: DR for DG and all round Big Game [Re: 577500WR]
      #176143 - 24/02/11 01:03 PM

Matt

Have a look at this thread which is one of my old guns,
a sidelock 450/400 3 1/4.

The guy who bought it put up 3 photos, 2 of DG.

He said he had no problem with it.

.

Edit Sorry, forgot to post the link.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/...8051#9391068051


.

Edited by 500Nitro (24/02/11 03:45 PM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: DR for DG and all round Big Game [Re: 500Nitro]
      #176151 - 24/02/11 02:52 PM

Old thread? Hmmmm where?

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: DR for DG and all round Big Game [Re: AkMike]
      #176178 - 25/02/11 04:43 AM

One could think about the # of different animals shot - or what is probably going to be shot to determine what calibre should be chosen - too- use of the rifle elsewhere, as Matt brings up. That is, suitability for big game in one's own country - or abroad in years to come.

I would think a .375 Flanged or 9.3x74 would be of 'best' choice for an all-round DR.

There would be little sense in my opinion, in buying a "stopping rifle", when a high quality and fun hunting rifle is desired.

The smaller 9.3mm or .375 Flanged (or H&H) will handle everyting from elephants on down and be much better for plains game as well. Recoil and cost being very much lower than the larger bores, should very much contribute to shooter accuracy and confidence as well.

This might be my lousy shoulder speaking, but that's where my stick's floating right now.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1


Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Extra information
0 registered and 514 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  CptCurl 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 6160

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved