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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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Smallbore
.224 member


Reged: 12/04/10
Posts: 4
Loc: London
Double Rifle Project
      #174688 - 02/02/11 11:53 AM

At Atkin, Grant & Lang we are working on a 'Colonial' grade double rifle. It is to be a long-bar top-lever boxlock with Purdey bolts and a third grip (possibly a Purdey concealed bite).

Stock will be pistol grip with cap and cheek-piece, forend probably Anson pushrod or maybe Gibbs grip catch. Double triggers. Border engraving only with engraved pins.

Iron leaf sights and ramp foresight.

The intention is to produce a rifle that Professional Hunters and regular tourist hunters who want a classic handling and looking British DR but can't afford one.

We aim to hit the US market at around $25,000.

We intend an initial model in .470 NE and a scaled down version in .375.

Discussions at present are:
1. Do we use .375 H&H rimless or .375 flanged?
2. Is there a market for a .450 calibre as well?
3. Would American buyers be interested in 9.3x74R?
4. Will anyone buy it? (We think so as there is a gap in this range right now)

Any contributions to these discussions most gratefully received.

--------------------
www.vintageguns.co.uk

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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3556
Loc: Colorado
Re: Double Rifle Project [Re: Smallbore]
      #174697 - 02/02/11 01:35 PM

Smallbore,
Sounds like a great project and if you can come in at the proposed $25K, should be viable.
As for your questions,
The 470 is an obvious choice, but I can see the dilemma regarding the 375.
On one hand, the flanged cartridge is the classic, "proper" choice, but lack of factory available ammunition may cool some prospective buyers' enthusiasm. Although on the vintage market I have noticed that the geniune .375 flanged magnums do command respectable prices right there with the over .40s.
I do feel that the 9.3X74R is becoming quite popular here in the US and for all purposes a close competitor to the 375 in all respects but price. That is where the 9.3 would gain much appeal as far as cost and availability of ammunition and reloading components.
As for the market gap, there are some doubles in this range, but not many, and especially not in the English style.
Would they be proofed in London and then sold in the US?

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Double Rifle Project [Re: Smallbore]
      #174705 - 02/02/11 02:16 PM

Quote:

At Atkin, Grant & Lang we are working on a 'Colonial' grade double rifle. It is to be a long-bar top-lever boxlock with Purdey bolts and a third grip (possibly a Purdey concealed bite).

Stock will be pistol grip with cap and cheek-piece, forend probably Anson pushrod or maybe Gibbs grip catch. Double triggers. Border engraving only with engraved pins.

Iron leaf sights and ramp foresight.

The intention is to produce a rifle that Professional Hunters and regular tourist hunters who want a classic handling and looking British DR but can't afford one.

We aim to hit the US market at around $25,000.

We intend an initial model in .470 NE and a scaled down version in .375.

Discussions at present are:
1. Do we use .375 H&H rimless or .375 flanged?
2. Is there a market for a .450 calibre as well?
3. Would American buyers be interested in 9.3x74R?
4. Will anyone buy it? (We think so as there is a gap in this range right now)

Any contributions to these discussions most gratefully received.



In order:

My vote is for flanged. I know there are many belted Double Rifles out there. And I know all manufacturers make them BUT I don't trust them and I Have had one break on me and I will never buy another.

Absolutely a market for the 450. Now that Hornady is making ammunition I think the inherent advantages of a 450 caliber, built on a 450 frame instead of a 470-500 frame is a no brainer for a new Double Rifle.

I think the 9.3 is the prefect Double cartridge for all around North America. If you can make it substantial cheaper than the .375 than it should sell nicely, if not than don't bother as most will pick the 375 instead.

Your price point for an English rifle would be unique, but it has been tried by others who outsoorced much of the work to keep the price down and failed. You need deep pockets for the first few years.

Quality will always sell, regardless of price.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39896
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Double Rifle Project [Re: Smallbore]
      #174712 - 02/02/11 03:14 PM

Quote:

ATKIN, GRANT & LANG, gunmakers since 1821, has passed into the hands of a new owner. Me! I took operational control of the firm at Windmill Road, Markyate, St Albans, on 5th September. Ken Duglan stays on in an advisory capacity for as long as necessary to ensure a smooth transition. I have great plans for developing the business and a fantastic team of gunmakers and administrators to help me do it. Fear not, I retain vintageguns.co.uk and will split my time between Markyate and London. Onwards and upwards for both companies!



From the vintageguns website: Firstly congratulations to Diggory Hadoke on the purchase!

NitroExpress.com is happy to help you with the information you seek. Hopefully the members here can provide you with their views on your new gunmaking project.


Quote:

At Atkin, Grant & Lang we are working on a 'Colonial' grade double rifle. It is to be a long-bar top-lever boxlock with Purdey bolts and a third grip (possibly a Purdey concealed bite).

Stock will be pistol grip with cap and cheek-piece, forend probably Anson pushrod or maybe Gibbs grip catch. Double triggers. Border engraving only with engraved pins.

Iron leaf sights and ramp foresight.

The intention is to produce a rifle that Professional Hunters and regular tourist hunters who want a classic handling and looking British DR but can't afford one.

We aim to hit the US market at around $25,000.

We intend an initial model in .470 NE and a scaled down version in .375.

Discussions at present are:
1. Do we use .375 H&H rimless or .375 flanged?
2. Is there a market for a .450 calibre as well?
3. Would American buyers be interested in 9.3x74R?
4. Will anyone buy it? (We think so as there is a gap in this range right now)

Any contributions to these discussions most gratefully received.



"Colonial" model, ha ha.

The price IMO looks like a feasible price (for the buyer) and competitive against some of the "standard" models of the better continental gunmakers. If of equivalent quality or better, an "English name" will certainly help sales.

Introducing a .470 is a no brainer for the American market.

I agree with Mick, a .450 is also sellable. I would buy a .450 anyday over a .470. Just my preferences, but a number of makers now have a .450 in their standard lineup.

.375 Mag vs Flanged? Tough call. I would prefer to buy a Flanged myself anyday over a Magnum version. But would reload anyway, as basically next to no Aussies buy big bore factory ammo in any quantities. For the American market, factory ammo is more important. I think the Magnum version will be more marketable, but the Flanged rifle appeal more to knowledgeable purists. I think this question is better left to our American members. Flanged for me personally though.

9.3x74R, as suggested if in a lighter and possibly cheaper rifle, it would be a great medium calibre double and be able to handle anything in North America. Also have a market on the continent for driven game hunting and battue.

A .450/400. A chambering to definitely consider as well. Growing in popularity for good reason.

Yes I think it will definitely sell.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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baileybradshaw
.333 member


Reged: 21/06/08
Posts: 305
Loc: Diana, TX
Re: Double Rifle Project [Re: NitroX]
      #174744 - 02/02/11 11:38 PM

Smallbore,

There is a place for such a rifle in the US. An English made and styled double at that price is not offered right now. Still, $25k is a lot of money, so your marketing will need to be effective.


9.3X74R is a must, more so than the .375 Flanged. The two are close enough that ammo availability tips the favor to the 9.3.

Other calibers, 450-400 3", .450 3 1/4, .470 and .500 would round out what would be most requested.

Look into the sales of the Robertson guns from Boss. If they were sucessfull, your efforts probably will be as well.

--------------------
www.bradshawgunandrifle.com

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Double Rifle Project [Re: Smallbore]
      #174747 - 03/02/11 01:38 AM

I'd vote for a 450/400 3"

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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jcs271
.224 member


Reged: 28/07/09
Posts: 19
Loc: Still Free State of Montana
Re: Double Rifle Project [Re: bonanza]
      #174750 - 03/02/11 04:25 AM

As has been said, with Hornady making new ammo and brass. The .450 3.25 would be my first choice. The other calibers will sell but with a nice 10lb rifle and the WIDE variety of .458 bullets, the .450Nitro is very hard to beat.

--------------------
"carrying a fine rifle in good country makes a man feel like a King."

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bwanabobftw
.375 member


Reged: 29/12/04
Posts: 676
Loc: Texas
Re: Double Rifle Project [Re: jcs271]
      #174760 - 03/02/11 09:25 AM

Smallbore,
I think you are on the right track !! How about a .303 ???? I have doubles in most of the other ones you are thinking about (450/400, 9.3X74R, 375FL. , 450 NE, etc.) , but a nice "English" .303 oh my !!!!!! The small bores are harder to find than the "big bores" and when you do find .303's the bores are "shot out" . Good luck with the "project"
Robert

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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Double Rifle Project [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #174805 - 04/02/11 08:37 AM

Quote:

Smallbore,
I think you are on the right track !! How about a .303 ???? I have doubles in most of the other ones you are thinking about (450/400, 9.3X74R, 375FL. , 450 NE, etc.) , but a nice "English" .303 oh my !!!!!! The small bores are harder to find than the "big bores" and when you do find .303's the bores are "shot out" . Good luck with the "project"
Robert



Smallbore has already heard from me on this, but I agree on the .303 Brit. What a wonderful chambering!

Dig, how many action sizes do you contemplate? If you are going to start with just one action, and if you are going first for the .470, then the .303 will have to be a future project.

I wish you the best of luck on your endeavor. Do you have a timeline yet?

Best,
Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Double Rifle Project [Re: CptCurl]
      #174806 - 04/02/11 08:38 AM

P.S. to Bawanabobftw:

Not all .303 bores are shot out. Keep looking.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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bwanabobftw
.375 member


Reged: 29/12/04
Posts: 676
Loc: Texas
Re: Double Rifle Project [Re: CptCurl]
      #174811 - 04/02/11 11:23 AM

Thanks !!!!! I will.
Just bought one of the new Chapuis Round Action Double rifles in 30/30. Plan on taking to Africa this June. Great little rifle that shoots the new "leveroution" ammo from Hornady. Not sure there is a dime's difference in the 30/30 and .303 with the Hornady ammo. But, still looking for .303.
Robert

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Double Rifle Project [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #174831 - 04/02/11 11:50 PM

I have a rebored/re-chambered .303 into .35 Winchester. Very handy cartridge shooting 200-250 grain projectiles. Ballistics are very similar to 35 Whelen but about 200 fps slower. Brass is formed from the 30-40 Craig. So, for the price of a Merkel 470 I got a real Holland and Holland double rifle, and; I can go shoot my Ruger H-1 .458 to remind me why I don't like recoil.

I still thing the 450-400 would be great. Mild recoil, factory ammo and easy to reload.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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bwanabobftw
.375 member


Reged: 29/12/04
Posts: 676
Loc: Texas
Re: Double Rifle Project [Re: bonanza]
      #174844 - 05/02/11 02:44 AM

Great idea "bonanza" !!!! I will keep my eyes open , now I wish I had not passed up some of the well worn .303's. I am a huge fan of the 450/400's as well. My first double years ago was an Army Navy in a 450/400 3" ( I won't even tell you what I paid for it , but at least I traded it for a .475 that I still have).

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