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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: 416 ruger popping primers [Re: bigjedd]
      #176149 - 24/02/11 02:23 PM

One thing I can say is that I'm always a bit wary of the "soft brass" theory. I'm not saying that it should ever be ruled out, just that I'm wary of it.
Many years ago I had pretty serious high pressure dramas in an old rifle shooting factory ammo.
Several gunsmiths said without a doubt the factory brass was "soft", and they were sure that was the problem.
I'm not talking about leaky or loose primer pockets here. This was a situation where the entire case head had expanded into the bolt face, locking the action up, and primer pockets looked they had opened up to twice the normal size.
On advice from the smiths who had examined both the rifle and the cases, I went out and bought a different brand of factory ammo. The smiths were certain that there was no problem with the firearm and that the problem was definately caused by the ammo I had first used having soft brass. "A bad batch" they said.
Well I tried out the new different brand of ammo, and guess what, it promptly did the same thing. Yup, exactly the same, with massive head expansion locking up the action, and massive expansion of the primer pocket.
That's the reason behind my being a bit wary of the old "soft brass" syndrome.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27506
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 416 ruger popping primers [Re: bigjedd]
      #176184 - 25/02/11 05:14 AM

By the sounds of it now, due to temps being moderate, not high, a few leaking primers (soot around the primer idicates this) - some blown primers - .212" primer pocket obviously at least .001" per side oversize. All the ammo of that LOT # is suspect. Leaking and blown primers indicated TOO high pressure for THOSE cases. Thus, due to the conditions, one can only say that perhaps the brass is at fault - as previously thought - or the powder charge or powder itself is at fault. This does not happen often - but it can and does happen.

.001" over non-fired, is normal absolute max on the first firing only, thereafter no further expansion is allowed - I personally prefer to see NO expansion at the head or rim. This is the head and rim of the case - NOT the web.

Case head expansion is usually something measured before and after - at the same spot (pre-marked) on the case.


Known safe normal maximum web expansion should not be exceeded.

Normally, with a ctg. that factory ammo is available for, I fire factory ammo that gives descent velocity compared to specs and record the expansion at the web- all around the web and on all cases - ie: before and after firing. I record that measurement average, maximum and minimim. Whether it's even all the way around the brass, or only in one spot. With handloads, I do not exceed that number.

I would not be concerned about the colour at the case mouth.

Dealing with wildcats is another kettle of fish, entirely.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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86thecat
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Reged: 14/07/05
Posts: 46
Loc: Black Hills SD, USA
Re: 416 ruger popping primers [Re: DarylS]
      #177365 - 19/03/11 05:15 AM

Would it be legal to send fired brass that showed over pressure back to Hornady for inspection?

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27506
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Re: 416 ruger popping primers [Re: 86thecat]
      #177375 - 19/03/11 08:41 AM

Does the chamber appear to have a normal leade and throat?

Do .416" bullets easily fit inside the fired brass necks?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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bigjedd
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Reged: 23/02/10
Posts: 37
Loc: Gippsland,Victoria,Australia
Re: 416 ruger popping primers [Re: DarylS]
      #177377 - 19/03/11 09:20 AM

86thecat I cannot send cases back to Hornady due to import/export laws But Hornady have made arrangements with the local distributor and I have sent the cases to them.

Daryl
when reloading the 40 odd cases that had no problems neck pressure and seating are fine it is only the primers that have popped out where I am having the problem and from just that one packet of ammo which has been shipped to the local dealer for further investigation.

I have been loading 340grn woodleighs to 2570fps and 400 gr frontier to 2385 fps in the 416 Ruger and have had no problem at all. It was just in the one packet of factory ammo that I had the problem.

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bigjedd
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Reged: 23/02/10
Posts: 37
Loc: Gippsland,Victoria,Australia
Re: 416 ruger popping primers [Re: bigjedd]
      #185306 - 06/07/11 08:40 AM

An update on the 416 ruger cases.
Hornady to their credit have despatched a new packet of 20 factory rounds in 400gr DGS at no cost.

Dont know if there was a problem with the whole batch but it seems like Hornady were keen to put things right.Its good to know they have backed up their product and the local agent Herrons has been most helpfull throughout the whole process. So I will give credit where its due.

Hope to try some of these rounds this weekend and measure before and after shots.

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