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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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mauserand9mm
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458WM is very versatile
      #173900 - 18/01/11 08:45 PM

(Good to see the website back up)

Went hunting a couple of weeks ago and used both reduced cast loads and full house copper against pigs, as well as a subsonic cast load on a rabbit.

500gn cast lead @ 1600fps:




400gn Woodleigh Protected Point (copper jacketed):




405gn cast lead @1000fps:



Edited by CptCurl (14/02/11 10:09 PM)

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Rolf
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Re: 458WM is very versatile [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #174100 - 25/01/11 10:39 PM

Hello,

can you please addd details about the 400grs Woodleigh PP bullet, like muzzle velocity, impact velocity (or distance to boar) and behaviour of bullet?

I´m interested because I planned a pig hunt (tree stand/"Hochsitz") maybe with a Sauer 90 Grand African .458 Win.Mag. and for this I intended to try the 400grs PP or the Speer 350grs SP with a somewhat reduced load.

Thank you!
Rolf

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Ben
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Re: 458WM is very versatile [Re: Rolf]
      #174134 - 26/01/11 08:06 AM

Well-done!

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mauserand9mm
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Re: 458WM is very versatile [Re: Ben]
      #174173 - 26/01/11 07:10 PM

For the 400gn Woodleigh PP, the pig was 45m away. I haven't measured the muzzle velocity but the loading data says it should be doing around 2300 to 2350 fps (I use ADI AR2207).

It was certainly devastating to use on pigs and probably too hard a projectile for this size game. The one shot actually killed two pigs - a pig behind this one was hit by the same bullet (but not very well). I didn't realise that I'd shot two until I had finished taking photos and spotted the second pig in the grass on the otherside of the road (it was dead) as I headed back to the car.

The pig in the photo was hit in the shoulder and the bullet exited just in front of the off-side shoulder, without touching it and leaving it cleanly exposed. The throat area was completely gone and the exit wound was large (size of an open hand). The bullet then entered at the low rear of the lung area of the second pig and exited low at the back of the abdominal area (guts?) on the other side and blew the rear leg off below the hip (the skin held it to the pig).

Judging by the entry hole in the second pig, the projectile hadn't expanded and I'm not sure it had even after exiting the second pig.

While within the velocity range recommended by Woodleigh for this projectile, I think the game was too small - maybe they would have opened up in a larger pig?

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Rolf
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Re: 458WM is very versatile [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #174183 - 26/01/11 10:04 PM

Thank you for the detailed answer!

You are right, maybe the Woodleigh 400grs PP bullet is too much bullet for this game/weight.
What do you think of Hornady 350grs SPRN or the Speer 350grs FP?

best regards
Rolf

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bonanza
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Re: 458WM is very versatile [Re: Rolf]
      #174195 - 27/01/11 01:06 AM

Or 300 hollow point.

--------------------


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"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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mauserand9mm
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Re: 458WM is very versatile [Re: bonanza]
      #174215 - 27/01/11 08:43 AM

Not sure, but I suspect that the lighter projectiles would perform better. I'd taken some 325gn Hornadys out with me but never had the chance to use them. They are designed for the 45/70 but should work okay at the higher velocities.

I'd used 220gn projectiles in my 375H&H many years ago and these worked well on pigs - this projectile was intended for the 375Win lever action round that was almost popular once.

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4seventy
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Re: 458WM is very versatile [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #174236 - 27/01/11 05:17 PM

Hi mauserand9mm,
I think the title of your thread is pretty apt regarding the versatility of the .458 Win.
I totally agree with you.
Thanks also for the photos of your 458 rifle and kills.

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4seventy
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Re: 458WM is very versatile [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #174310 - 28/01/11 01:47 PM

Back in the early 90's Taipan used to make 300 grain bonded core bullets in .458 which were meant to run at 45-70 velocities.
I ran them up to 2700 fps in my old 458 mag which of course was way too fast, and they flattened out real quick.
Could have run them faster still but there was no point.

Some later 300 gn Taipans which I bought just had a conventional core without the bonding.
The bottom photo showing 6 bullets shows the bonded cores in the bottom row and the later conventional cores in the top row.








Edited by CptCurl (14/02/11 10:10 PM)

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450_Ackley
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Re: 458WM is very versatile [Re: 4seventy]
      #174329 - 28/01/11 07:44 PM

I've had those Taipans doing just about 3000 fps out of my 450 Ackley, probably not PC if I mention at what large feathered animal I used them on.
Still got quite a few of the projectiles left, along with some old 300 grain bonded Taipans in .375 diameter as well.

DC

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4seventy
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Re: 458WM is very versatile [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #174332 - 28/01/11 08:26 PM

Yeah, I reckon they'd work pretty well on those big varmints!
I think I might have been able to get 2800 with them in the 458 Win, but penetration on goats and pigs at 2700 was not too flash.
I swaged a few 300's up to shoot in the 470, but had a couple of hangfires, and didn't shoot anymore of them after that.
Also swaged up some 350 RN 458 Hornady's for the 470 and they work pretty well.

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Con
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Re: 458WM is very versatile [Re: 4seventy]
      #174356 - 29/01/11 03:35 AM

Woodleigh has a new bonded 300gr FN SP meant for the 45/70.

Another interesting options is this projectile ... which actualy retails at a lower price than the Woodleigh.

http://people.aapt.net.au/~nelltash5/bullet%20factory%2002/458%20monopex.htm

Cheers...
Con

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264
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Re: 458WM is very versatile [Re: Rolf]
      #175749 - 18/02/11 05:04 PM

Rolf, i run the 350 hornadys out of my 458 @ about 2500fps. Absolutly smashes boars. have also used it on small buff with good results. Mick

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tinker
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Re: 458WM is very versatile [Re: 264]
      #175750 - 18/02/11 06:14 PM

I had wanted to test drive the 350gr Barnes TSX at the 2800fpsMV neighborhood.
Wanting a bit of extended range and somewhat flat trajectory.
I figured the TSX was tough enough for the job.

This is what one of those does to a hillside at 100yds.
Thats actually an incline, I had to tweak the camera to reduce sun glare.
5000ft/lbs!









Pretty amazing upset to the ground.
Before the impact it looked like the surrounding area, grass and all.

The last photo doesn't really show how deep the hole is due to the relatively wide angle of the camera's lens.
Note how deep my boot and leg get into the hole as I dug for the bullet.

That's what a 350gr TSX does in front of 80gr of powder at 100 yards.
My oh my...



Cheers
Tinker

Edited by CptCurl (18/02/11 09:50 PM)

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Sarg
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Re: 458WM is very versatile [Re: tinker]
      #175751 - 18/02/11 07:47 PM

Thats amazing stuff , I thought you had just shot the side out of a Termite/Ant hill , but you made a Termite/Ant hill LoL !

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tinker
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Re: 458WM is very versatile [Re: Sarg]
      #175762 - 19/02/11 01:49 AM

No mate-


The front sight (NECG, adjustable) had been set for the Hornady4502/2450fpsMV load.
As I was shooting a short series of increasing loads to see how the brass would do (and it was too windy to use a chronograph without losing it to the wind) I just held the front sight on a coffee can on a small berm at the base of the hill.
That bullet hit high, smacking the hillside behind/above the can.
That bit of earth (before the shot) had an even ground-cover.
At the impact, crap flew everywhere, and when I first walked up on the spot I couldn't believe it - hence the snapshots of before/after.
I was amazed at the effect.
Also at that amount of upset, I'm amazed at how well the bullet held together.




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 458WM is very versatile [Re: tinker]
      #175816 - 19/02/11 09:45 PM

Tinker, it's good to see such a multi-purpose tool now that you are into farming. Your trusty .458 will serve the purpose of a plow and bulldozer in times when hunting season is closed. . . .possibly even as a post-hole digger if aimed properly!

Yes, versatile.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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albertan
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Re: 458WM is very versatile [Re: CptCurl]
      #212559 - 12/07/12 03:57 PM

When the .458 Lott was first offered in CZ rifles. CZ simply reamed out the chamber and put a stamp on the barrel. Then reports came in about poor feeding. They did some experimenting and found out that there was merit to the claims of their Lott customers. The custom shop that makes these rifles for CZ found they had to play with the throat and rails. Significant machining was involved. They feed alright now, but many, many home 'smithed Lott rifles do not. Caveat emptor.

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mauserand9mm
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Re: 458WM is very versatile [Re: albertan]
      #212568 - 12/07/12 09:15 PM

I think feeding issues were the reason they converted them to 458Lott in the first place - the longer case reduces the angle feeding into the chamber to try and prevent the bullet getting caught up inside the extractor cutout inside the action.

My rifle had feeding issues and the previous owner had the ramp modified but with no success - he got a refund from where he bought it, and it was about to be parted out. I got it at a reduced price. I think there is something in the way the action is cycled. With the pointy Woodleigh 400gn PP, the issue is non-existant 99% of the time. Even the lead slugs didn't present too many feeding issues, but the 510gn Winchester factories jam almost all the time due to the round fat tips. (Note: Jamming only occurs from cartridges in the LHS of the magazine for the reason described earlier.)

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poprivit
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Re: 458WM is very versatile [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #212579 - 13/07/12 01:39 AM

Ya think the 458 was enough bullet for the rabbit? Me, I'd have at them with the Lott.

Seriously, I used a 500 gr. solid 458 Lott on a couple of warthogs and all bullets just blew right through. I'm afraid if I had of used soft points, there wouldn't have been much left of the pig except a red mist and whimper!

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DarylS
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Re: 458WM is very versatile [Re: poprivit]
      #212587 - 13/07/12 07:00 AM

I've used 350gr RM Hornady's at 2,290fps on Moose - splendid performance. One, a frontal, centred the brain, smashed 3 vertebrae and exited out the back of his neck- large exit hole, ie: 2".

The 350gr. Speer has an incredibly thick jacket, ie: .063" or 1/16".
Since it is guidling metal, it's even tougher than the .049's Barnes used to use.
The bullet was designed for the .458 Mag for deer and other lighter game.
In a .45/70, Speer and some writers such as Barnsness suggests moving it over 1,900fps just to get it to expand.
The picture of one sectioned, shows that I crimped it lengthwise in the vice, just to 'expand' the jacket to show it's thickness a bit better.
I'd personally drive it as fast as possible for pigs, just to get it to expand. I do think the 350 Hornady's might be better for lighter animals.
We've also had 300gr. Hornady's (or was it a FN Sierra?) driven at only 2,260fps (Sharps .45 3 1/4"), 1" diameter exit on broadside a moose lung shot, no bones - 3 year old bull, maybe 800pounds maximum.

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mauserand9mm
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Re: 458WM is very versatile [Re: poprivit]
      #212595 - 13/07/12 08:40 AM

Quote:

Ya think the 458 was enough bullet for the rabbit? Me, I'd have at them with the Lott.



The rabbit load was a 405gn lead running sub-sonic, essentially a 22 (well bigger hole, and like ten 22s at the same time I suppose).

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DarylS
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Re: 458WM is very versatile [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #212621 - 14/07/12 12:38 AM

Even more fun when you can get them lined up.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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