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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Lee Speed Forum & Archive
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TH44
.375 member


Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 734
Loc: West UK
Westley Richards Lee Speed
      #173436 - 20/12/10 05:31 AM

Hi Guys

Interest in the previous posts revived my interest in my Westley Richards Enfield I bought some 30 years ago for £8 - $10!! (The dealer, a friend, never lets me forget it!)

It was tatty and I had it reblued then, and a new horn fore end cap recently

Until I joined this forum I had no idea of the background or BSA connection, I checked the action with a cutaway in the Royal Armouries to know that it was a long Lee Enfield, with the 5 groove 26 inch barrel (46 1/4inch o/a)

It has WR serial no. 38061 as well as suppliers (BSA?) 8783 on barrel and action, the bolt is 8846









I assume the stock is WR? although the number 69 is on the wood and the action, This would also explain the lack of the long range sight on the fore end of the Long LE



The 5 shot mag is nicely engraved, as is much of the gun



The foresight appears to have had a cover at sometime



The rear sight has 3 leaves, the ladder goes to 1000 yards



The safety has BSA Pat 28834/97 (could be 28654?) - 1897? on it and works back to front, i.e. forward is safe



The initials FH are on the previous thread Lee



Does anyone know the meaning of the E and V in circles?



Proof marks are Birmingham after 1904, conflicts with the Long Lee Enfield?



Is this on all of them? Also shows the rib

Any thoughts, comments please

Jc5 - feel free to use any info, if you want more, ask or PM me

In the UK, value is not high, a much better one, cased, with accessories, was at Bisley for £750 less than $1000

TH44

Edited by CptCurl (20/12/10 11:50 PM)

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old_LEESPEED
.224 member


Reged: 09/12/10
Posts: 20
Loc: SINBIN
Re: Westley Richards Lee Speed [Re: TH44]
      #173450 - 20/12/10 11:00 AM

Hi

Great photos, my barrel has the same FH, mine has a 3 over it. I maybe thought it was the inspectors rank and initials, but that dosnt seem so likeley.

Your shotgun style saftey is a patent from 1897. I would suspect that the brunt of the speeds were sold with this saftey after the 1897 patent, but that again is speculation.

Cheers

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rgg_7
.275 member


Reged: 22/10/07
Posts: 56
Loc: Canada
Re: Westley Richards Lee Speed [Re: TH44]
      #173451 - 20/12/10 11:01 AM

Awesome "Westley Richards".

Bond Street housed a number of rifle builders like Holland& Holland, Westley Richards, Greener and a few others who were "Gunmakers". They would purchase from companies like BSA, Mauser and build their "Custom" rifle. These were often built to a customers specification hence variation in barrel length, sights, etc.

Yours is the top model with rib and engraving. The "69" is most likely the Westley Richards build number as it appears on the metal and wood. The "8783" most likely is the BSA number for the barrelled action. The rifle may have a mismatched bolt if the number you've given is correct. The "38061" number on the receiver looks like it was electro engraved and may have been added much later...hard to tell except it does not appear to be the Westley Richards font.

Stock looks Wr to me. Should have a linseed oil finish; horn cap and tip and steel butt plate. Is the butt plate engraved to the standard seen elsewhere on the rifle.

Having a very good bore is a plus....lots of interest in these old Enfield spoters,

Ron

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Westley Richards Lee Speed [Re: rgg_7]
      #173452 - 20/12/10 11:06 AM

That 38061 on the receiver ring was stamped, not engraved.


Great rifle, perfect condition for all-condition hunting too - if it shoots!
Is it accurate?





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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375BSA
.224 member


Reged: 08/02/10
Posts: 17
Loc: California, USA
Re: Westley Richards Lee Speed [Re: rgg_7]
      #173579 - 22/12/10 04:48 AM

Quote:

Awesome "Westley Richards".




Stock looks Wr to me. Should have a linseed oil finish; horn cap and tip and steel butt plate. Is the butt plate engraved to the standard seen elsewhere on the rifle.


Ron



Hi Ron,
I'm curious why you say the stock looks to be Westley Richards? It appears identical, right down to the checkering pattern to several of my BSA rifles. Are you looking at the finish or something else?
The knurling on the underside of the bolt knob is a nice touch!
Stevan

--------------------
Working with jc5 on the Lee Speed research project. Very interested in contacting former BSA gunsmiths and other employees.
"Recoil is irrelevant when there's a tiger in your howdah!"

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rgg_7
.275 member


Reged: 22/10/07
Posts: 56
Loc: Canada
Re: Westley Richards Lee Speed [Re: 375BSA]
      #173610 - 22/12/10 02:43 PM

The stock is very typical in shape of the LeeSpeed pattern introduced by its makers. Source is an interesting question......who actually turned the stocks, fitted and finished? To say with certainity that is WR , BSA or another maker would require a hands on examination. I've based my WR opinion on the assembly number "69" that's stamped both on the metal and wood. I do concur that the shape is not unlike the BSA I and others own. I'm assuming that WR purchased from a supplier and did the fitting.

Another interesting observation is the tang safety. This was a BSA option (list in their catalog). Note that it marked "BSA" with a patten pending "28654/97". Any body got a spare tang/safety...I could use one for a rifle I have.

The WR serial number looks engraved and is bright against the blued receiver. The rifle was reblued so the Owner should be able to comment on this number. It's font is different than any other number on the rifle whether stamped or engraved. Look at the "178" engraved on the barrel. It's blued, originally rust blued, and the "1" and the "8" are a different font than the corresponding numbers in the WR serial number. Again a hands on examination would clear up this question.

The checkering on the grip and forend look different. Has the forend checkering been recut as is has diamond shaped rather than flat top pattern? Grip looks like the typical flat top English checkring that I 've seen an a number of these rifles.

Great looking rifle.

Ron

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TH44
.375 member


Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 734
Loc: West UK
Re: Westley Richards Lee Speed [Re: rgg_7]
      #173728 - 24/12/10 04:26 AM

Ron

The fore end was damaged when I got it and I had a carpenter do a repair with a wood fore end cap. When I had the horn cap fitted recently the guy chequered the insert and re-did the fore end. I see now it does not match the grip. He generally only re-cuts existing chequering

The number 69 is on the fore end, there are other numbers on the stock - 2 ? (a stamp?) and the 69

The bolt is a mismatch, from when?????? The chequering under it is probably original W-R??

The W-R ? # 38061 is also under the barrel. I have no knowledge of stamps, etc. everything is as I got it. What number 178 are you referring to?

The butt plate is engraved, not blued, an indication of the condition I received it in. There is a horn cap on the pistol grip

Tinker - It shoots ok for me, AFAIR about 2 inch group at 50 yards with Mk VII military ammo which is all I can shoot with iron sights. I am sure it could be improved with a better shooter and ammo



Butt with numbers - what is the symbol/ number next to the 2



W-R ? number under barrel



Butt plate, with usual oil bottle and pull through

Many thanks to you all for the info and comments so far

TH

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Blancsanglier
.224 member


Reged: 14/04/13
Posts: 2
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Re: Westley Richards Lee Speed [Re: TH44]
      #228747 - 15/04/13 05:28 AM

Hello TH44, this is an old post so don't know if you are still active on the the forum.

I enjoyed the post on the Lee particularly in that I have the brother to your rifle (cost me more than ten pounds though) mine is marked Westley Richards and has the Ser No 38060.

It appears to be pretty much a twin of your rifle.

I bought it in Canada otherwise don't know much about it.

If you have any information I would be interested.

NB

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TH44
.375 member


Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 734
Loc: West UK
Re: Westley Richards Lee Speed [Re: Blancsanglier]
      #228901 - 17/04/13 09:14 AM

NB - Since responding to your PM I realised that the serial numbers are consecutive - quite a coincidence!

Clearly two of a possible batch of BSA's bought and marketed by Westley Richards

As I emailed you, the .303 was probably the most popular calibre throughout the Empire, and these a (relatively) affordable sporting, as well as the Officer's models, with/without bayonet fittings as well as carbines

As I said, if only they could talk!

TH44

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Rule303
.450 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 5061
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Westley Richards Lee Speed [Re: Blancsanglier]
      #228933 - 17/04/13 07:43 PM

Quote:

Hello TH44, this is an old post so don't know if you are still active on the the forum.

I enjoyed the post on the Lee particularly in that I have the brother to your rifle (cost me more than ten pounds though) mine is marked Westley Richards and has the Ser No 38060.

It appears to be pretty much a twin of your rifle.

I bought it in Canada otherwise don't know much about it.

If you have any information I would be interested.

NB



First up I missed this thread when it was originaly posted. Very nice and a very good pick up.

What a coincidence and on ein the UK the other over the Atlantic in Canada.

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