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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns
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CommandCar
.333 member


Reged: 18/09/10
Posts: 292
Loc: East Coast, USA
Galzan Double gun
      #172788 - 08/12/10 11:45 AM

A couple of my friends own RBL Professional 20 gauge fully rifled double guns. I have not tried these guns yet, but reports are that they do not group or regulate well. I understand they discontinued the series because of this problem.

I have agreed to help get one (likely both) of these to regulate. If anyone would like to share any information or specifications on these guns, factory ammunition or handloads it would be most appreciated.

Edited by CommandCar (08/12/10 12:36 PM)

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tinkerModerator
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Galzan Double gun [Re: CommandCar]
      #172794 - 08/12/10 05:31 PM

Each rifle is unique.
The best way to get help by way of this kind of approach is to report the specific performance of each individual rifle, including type of ammunition, chronograph data, and target examples -- also including detailed explanation of each shooter's hold, shooting posture, rest configuration, and gun fit.
Also helpful will be full chamber-casting and bore-slugging data, just as with any other unknown double rifle...

Get on it!
I eagerly await the reports.




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27005
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Re: Galzan Double gun [Re: tinker]
      #172810 - 09/12/10 03:43 AM

CCar - the task ahead of you is a big one & commendable. I hope it is successful. The ability to buy a newly made DR of large bore would indeed be wonderful.

Doubles are a definite problem. There is no 'easy' method of mass production regulation - which you probably know - which some companies/people will not acknowledge or refuse to understand.

Best method is to pick an ammunition source and load, then build a gun to regulate to that. Unfortunately, as far as I know, there is no facory ammo in 20 bore that is suitable for heavy or big game. If so, I am not aware of it - entirely possible - just that I am ignorant of it's existance. I hope you have a choice in suitable ammo. Must pick one and regulated a gun for it as per The-Old-Way. Make any and all measurements possible, then duplicate them to inside a thousanth of an inch and see what happens. That's about the only advice I can think of, for a mass or semi-mass-produced gun.

Foster slugs are poor at best. Undersized pistol bullets in plastic sabots is not a suitable bullet either for shooting game - in my opinon. Full sized bullets of decent weight, ie: 460gr. or slightly heavier, as a round ball that size weighs around 320gr., the slug should be about 1 1/2 the RB's weight. The twist should be fairly slow - ie: about 36" for the short slug - or about 80" for round ball at high velocity. Of course, these handloads.

Unfortunately, there are few of us prepared to handload - it seems - the majority of large bore shooters - or perhaps large bore owners, shoot factory ammo - so they shoot very little due to costs & are not prone to developing loads for their guns, themselves. They want to buy a box of ammo that is suitable and shoots well - they were bore 160 yards too late, unfortunately. They'd have been about 40 years old in the 80's or 90's when such ammo was available.

There is some ammo out there, ie: H&H Paradox but I don't know if it's available in 20.

You are probably aware of this. Sorry if I wasted your time.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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jaz
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Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 188
Loc: Northeast US
Re: Galzan Double gun [Re: DarylS]
      #172847 - 10/12/10 03:45 AM

Daryl,

Why do you feel the saboted bullets are not effective on deer sized animals?? I use the Hornady FTX with a 250 grain bullet with great success. Accuracy is amazing. I am building a Double twenty gauge on a Holland Dominion action and will be regulating it around this bullet.
I considered a round ball but finding a slow rate of twist barrel prooved too difficult.
Comments please.
JZ

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gatsby
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Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: Galzan Double gun [Re: jaz]
      #172848 - 10/12/10 04:00 AM

Jaz,
Why not a conical? That would be a "beater" with some wallop?

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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jaz
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Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 188
Loc: Northeast US
Re: Galzan Double gun [Re: gatsby]
      #172867 - 10/12/10 11:06 AM

Gatsby
I contemplated a Fauneta type bullet but am unsure of the 1 in 28 rifling. With the new powder you have for the Fauneta, 1800 fps may be possible. A beater for sure.....
John

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CommandCar
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Reged: 18/09/10
Posts: 292
Loc: East Coast, USA
Re: Galzan Double gun [Re: jaz]
      #172869 - 10/12/10 11:24 AM

Jaz,

You could get 1,800 FPS with the non-canister powder we are using, but, not with the 425 grain slug. My recollection is the pressure of the Fauneta substitute ammunition some of us are fooling around with is above or at the limits of SAMMI specifications for the 20 Ga.


The RBL Professional apparently used Verney Carron barrel blanks, just like Hastings, so the twist is 1:24". I'll be fooling with sabots first. I think they were regulated for the remington copper solid (sabot) slugs - 290 grain @ 1500 FPS. My favorite 20 gauge sabot loads are the Federal tipped expanders (Barnes, 290 grain @ 1,900 FPS), but these guns have 2 3/4" chambers. I have sabots as components, so I may use the muzzle loader component bullets (Barnes tipped expanders) and roll my own in the shorter case.

So, anyone have a 20 Ga Hastings barrel? I'd like to know it's prefered diet.

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jaz
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Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 188
Loc: Northeast US
Re: Galzan Double gun [Re: CommandCar]
      #173825 - 26/12/10 12:08 AM

CCar
Years ago when my daughter was 10, I bought her an H&R slug gun, before the heavy barrels were made. That gun and the new ones have barrels made by Shaw . My son has the heavy barrel version. The accuracy with these guns amazes me. I shoot the Hornady sabot slug and can literally shoot 1-2" groups at 100 yds with both guns. I do not like the Federal slugs as I have had primer non fire issues and swore to never use their products again. ( Yes, it was a VERY large deer and the primer failed as it was recessed too deep!).
With shoulder shots, 20 gauge, the bullet usually lies under the hide opposite the entry wound. Results have always been excellent.
Hope this helps.
JZ

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peter
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Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: Galzan Double gun [Re: jaz]
      #173855 - 26/12/10 07:42 AM

Commandcar

as far as i remmember the Galzan bore gun is regulated by a device at the musselend of the barrels so if you find a load that shoots in the barrels, you should be abel to get them to regulate with this device, i am not sure how good they are, as they got discontinued rather fast, but a S/S bore guns is still pretty cool(i know i love them)

best

peter

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