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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9034
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Bockbüchsflinte Schmidt&Habermann Kal. 9,3x53R Swiss/ 16
#171575 - 17/11/10 07:53 PM

a rare Bockbüchsflinte in 9,3x53R Swiss, made in Suhl for Switzerland in times when nobody ever believe plastik will fit on rifle's some bad day

Bockbüchsflinte Schmidt&Habermann Kal. 9,3x53R / 16
mit Zeiss Jena 4x42M Abs.4 auf SEM
VORKRIEG, BÖHLER STAHL
mit Laufschiene
mit EJEKTOREN!
sig. auf der Laufschiene "Robert Flückiger, Zürich"
vermutlich ein Merkel System
vorderer Abzug mit Stecher
mit doppelter Laufhakenverriegelung
feinste Gravuren nach bester Suhler Art : links Rehwild - rechts Rotwild - Unterseite sign. "ESHA" (Schmidt & Habermann)
Verschluss absolut dicht
Ser.Nr. 42217
sehr feines Schaftholz mit sehr feiner Fischhaut
Sicherung auf dem Kolbenhals
eine aussergewöhnliche Bockbüchsflinte von feinster Suhler Vorkriegsqualität in höchstem Standard
sehr guter Erhaltungszustand
Schaftlänge 37,5cm, Lauflänge 67cm

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3044390

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (17/11/10 10:39 PM)

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fuhrmann
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Reged: 04/01/05
Posts: 328
Loc: Switzerland

Re: Bockbüchsflinte Schmidt&Habermann Kal. 9,3x53R Swiss/ 16 [Re: lancaster]
#171584 - 18/11/10 01:24 AM

Nice, but the Monte Carlo butt with the ventilated pad looks awfully "post-war".
The scope is post-war, too.

Regards,
Fuhrmann

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9034
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: Bockbüchsflinte Schmidt&Habermann Kal. 9,3x53R Swiss/ 16 [Re: fuhrmann]
#171587 - 18/11/10 03:26 AM

yes, you are probably right about the monte carlo stock. doesn't look pre war and I had mixed emotions when seeing the gun. post the rifle because of the rare chambering and because its a good example how flexible they were in pre war time's in Suhl.
You know that I don't realy warmed up with Bockwaffen but untouched pre war combo's being also pc.
the scope deserve a closer inspection and will maybe fit for most hunting situations.

will see if someone goes with this very high starting bid, valuable combination gun but for a special taste

btw, good possibility to post the swiss catalog page about the 9,3x53R if you have it now.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (18/11/10 03:29 AM)

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DarylS
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Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Bockbüchsflinte Schmidt&Habermann Kal. 9,3x53R Swiss/ 16 [Re: lancaster]
#171590 - 18/11/10 04:07 AM

Nice rifle/shogun. Seems to me the 9.3x53R has the same or similar ballistics to the factory 9.3x57- same capacity as well. Both were loaded to less than 40,000CIP IIRC.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
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Posts: 9034
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Re: Bockbüchsflinte Schmidt&Habermann Kal. 9,3x53R Swiss/ 16 [Re: DarylS]
#171594 - 18/11/10 04:45 AM

true for the 9,3x53R Finnish but the 9,3x53R Swiss isn't more than a hot 9,3x72R load. this two cartridge's may look similar but playing in two different league's. the Swiss round is a roe deer and
chamois cartridge from a time when wild boar and reed deer were almost non existent in Switzerland.
notice that the 9,3x53R Swiss is the rimmed version of a 7,5x55 open up to 9,3mm. the measurement's are very close to a 7,62mm Mosin basic case but this is pure coincidence.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: Bockbüchsflinte Schmidt&Habermann Kal. 9,3x53R Swiss/ 16 [Re: lancaster]
#171595 - 18/11/10 05:09 AM

Here is a "brother" of the gun above: Also by E.Schmidt & Habermann, ESHA, Suhl, also 9.3x53RSwiss / 16, proofed July 1927, same Kersten + double underbolting, same boxlock action with Kerner's top-mounted sears and cocking indicators, original stock. Granted, the action is filed up a little bit different, the engraving is much less elaborate, the wood is plain and it has a lot of rust pitting on the outside, but still fine insides. When it came to me, it was without a scope, so I claw-mounted a post-war Hensoldt DIATAL 4x32 on the original bases. The whole outfit set me back only about 7% of the asking price of the ESHA above.

--------------------
German foresters: We like sustainability! For merely 300 years by 2013.

Edited by CptCurl (19/11/10 11:24 PM)

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: Bockbüchsflinte Schmidt&Habermann Kal. 9,3x53R Swiss/ 16 [Re: kuduae]
#171596 - 18/11/10 06:18 AM

Quote:

true for the 9,3x53R Finnish but the 9,3x53R Swiss isn't more than a hot 9,3x72R load. this two cartridge's may look similar but playing in two different league's. the Swiss round is a roe deer and
chamois cartridge from a time when wild boar and reed deer were almost non existent in Switzerland.
notice that the 9,3x53R Swiss is the rimmed version of a 7,5x55 open up to 9,3mm. the measurement's are very close to a 7,62mm Mosin basic case but this is pure coincidence.

lancaster, you are right when you work from the tables! The 9.3x53 Swiss, rimmed or rimless, was loaded with 200gr pointed boat-tail softpoint or solid bullets in front of 50gr of an unknown smokeless powder, first two cartridges on the left. Most of the 9.3 Swiss barrels have 9.3x72R rifling dimensions, as on two Zella-Mehlis made o/u combinations with weak lockup I know. My ESHA is different: It has six lands .356" diameter, and 6 wide grooves , .366" diam. So apparently ESHA chambered a barrel already rifled for the 9.3x74R to the Swiss cartridge. As action and barrel dimensions are quite massive and the lockup is as strong as that of any modern Merkel o/u, I am a little more daring. Indeed I make my cases from 7.62x54R Moisin-Nagant S&B brass, by thinning rims on a lathe, necking up and fireforming. By coincidence the result is something like a slightly "improved" 9.3x53R Finnish. Third cartridge from left is a load I tried first, a 193gr RWS 9.3x72R bullet in front of 50gr N140. Fourth is the "working load " for the time being, a 255gr Geco soft nose in front of , again 50gr N140. The old Kemira/Vihtavuori recommended max. load for for the 9.3x53R Finn was a 255gr SAKO bullet in front of 51.1gr N140, for 2300 fps.

BTW, I don't like over-unders either, but this ESHA gun intrigued me.

--------------------
German foresters: We like sustainability! For merely 300 years by 2013.

Edited by CptCurl (19/11/10 11:24 PM)

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lancaster
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Re: Bockbüchsflinte Schmidt&Habermann Kal. 9,3x53R Swiss/ 16 [Re: kuduae]
#171652 - 19/11/10 06:31 AM

your reason's about your +P loading are clear and understandable. do you had the chance to use this load on heavy game ?
the old 16,5 geco softpoint is becoming a rare bullet now.

I try to bid on it when it surface on egun but people are willing to pay the double price of what it was cost 10 year's ago.
to much for a bullet I probably cant get again when stock end's and how much are 100. not enough when you start to develop a load with a bullet and make more than 3 shot's a year. it seems that I come to Finland next summer and will get a bigger supply of the 16,6 gramm Sako softpoint then.
I had pics of a Suhl made Kipplaufbüchse in 9,3x53R for the swiss market and now in possession of a german hunter but it was lost on my hardware.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (19/11/10 11:25 PM)

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kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: Bockbüchsflinte Schmidt&Habermann Kal. 9,3x53R Swiss/ 16 [Re: lancaster]
#171725 - 20/11/10 09:20 AM

Quote:

do you had the chance to use this load on heavy game ?

No, I did not yet take it out for hunting, as my work on that gun is still in slow progress. Perhaps I will make a sizing die to resize lighter .375" bullets to .366. Instead, I used my 9.5x57 M1910 Mannlicher-Schoenauer today to kill a boar.

--------------------
German foresters: We like sustainability! For merely 300 years by 2013.

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