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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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underlever
.300 member


Reged: 01/02/07
Posts: 164
Loc: N.S.W Australia
Henry Mystery
      #165793 - 05/08/10 09:55 PM

G'day Fella's,
I need a bit of info if any of you can help. I have been offered a Alex. Henry double rifle,with bar action locks. Nothing quite out of the ordinary yet, but read on. Keep in mind that the rifle is the better part of a days drive from me so all the info I'm working on is by phone and a couple of pics sent over the web. Of course the first thing I asked the seller was the cal. Back came the answer; 470. Hmm thinks me, a later gun made by Dickson. "Is it a box lock I ask ?"
"no, underlever hammer with very good Henry rifling" came back down the line. A Henry rifled 470???
Must be a mistake for sure, probably a 500-450, so I asked him to try a 458" pill in the muzzles. It drops straight through but a 510" bullet is way too big. Does a 470 shell go in the chambers? Almost it seems, to within a couple mm's of going completely in. He then sent a couple of pics and to me and the gun looks an early one, has that " muzzleloading feel " to it. Proof marks; pre 1887, and now the serial number; its in the low 1600's so its looks about right.
I have a very nice little 360- 2 1/4" double by Henry and have seen quite a few more in my day to day work, but for the life of me I don't know what this is? Did Henry try an early form of a 47 cal rifle? He also said when asked about express sights that instead of a standing sight with leaves on it has one standing that is on an inclined slide which is marked for the different ranges.
The rifle does look a bit tired but it sure does intrigue me. I know you would like to see the pics but at this point I would like to keep them under cover as it were.
Any help/ info/ ideas would be much appreciated.
Regards, Underlever.

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CHAPUISARMES
.416 member


Reged: 16/01/08
Posts: 2908
Loc: DUBBO, NSW, AUSTRALIA
Re: Henry Mystery [Re: underlever]
      #165794 - 05/08/10 10:21 PM


Hi Underleaver,

Does this person have a camera even a film type would allow them take all the relevant points of interest and then be made into a digital format for posting. Is there any info as to loads, serial numbers etc which would help in the assessment of your offer??

Cheers,

Jeff Gray

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underlever
.300 member


Reged: 01/02/07
Posts: 164
Loc: N.S.W Australia
Re: Henry Mystery [Re: underlever]
      #165795 - 05/08/10 10:35 PM

G'day Jeff,
the seller has supplied me with a few photos of the rifle and other then the engraving being a bit unusual, it looks like a fairly standard early Henry. I am already thinking of losing a days engraving and going for a drive.......
I know its difficult without me showing pics, but its the cal. that has got me beat at the moment.
Underlever.

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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5307
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Henry Mystery [Re: underlever]
      #165838 - 06/08/10 10:01 PM

Quote:

Proof marks; pre 1887



What is the bore size indicated by the proof marks?

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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underlever
.300 member


Reged: 01/02/07
Posts: 164
Loc: N.S.W Australia
Re: Henry Mystery [Re: CptCurl]
      #165864 - 07/08/10 08:57 AM

G'day Curl,
this was one of the questions I put to the seller, but alas its one of those rifles that went through proof but for whatever reason didn't get stamped with its bore size. My little 360 Henry is in the same boat, wonderful quality but not punched with anything to indicate its cal. I can't get away to have a look at it for about a week so I might send an email off to Dicksons. They have been very helpful in the past. Also, the barrels seem to be steel, not damascus.


underlever

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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5307
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Henry Mystery [Re: underlever]
      #165879 - 07/08/10 09:28 PM

If proofed prior to 1887 the barrel flats will be stamped with a number indicating the bore size. A .577 BPE would be stamped "25". A .500 BPE of the period would be stamped "39". A smaller bore would be stamped with a higher number. Here's a photo of the flats of my .577 BPE Henry (proofed 25 bore):













Anything proofed after 1887 will be stamped with a decimal number indicating the bore in thousandths of an inch. For example, my Gibbs .450NE (proofed .450):



In either case, if proofed, the flats will be stamped with something to indicate bore size.

Without more information I don't see how anybody on the forums can answer your questions. Certainly there was no .470NE made before 1887.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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underlever
.300 member


Reged: 01/02/07
Posts: 164
Loc: N.S.W Australia
Re: Henry Mystery [Re: CptCurl]
      #165915 - 08/08/10 03:05 PM

G'day Curl,
thanks for the input. To me at least, everytime I think I understand even a little bit how the English gun trade worked, something pops up to throw a spanner in the works. The picture of the barrel flats of my little Henry 360, clearly show no bore size stamp. When I asked Dicksons to check the records in regard to this, the reply was that the gun was sold 5th July, 1884 and is shown in the book as "best quality double centre fire in 360 cal. barrels 27 1/2", weight 6lb 14oz." If the rifle I've been offered hasn't been marked with a bore size it will be the 3rd one I've seen.
Mainly I was wondering if anyone had run across a Henry BPE rifle with a cal. between .45" and .50"
because in 1876 Henry's supplied a pair of 20 gauge [ 620 cal.] 2 1/2" brass case BPE double rifles to a prince in India. This is about 21 years before the 600 N.E we know today came into being so maybe he tried a mid cal. rifle as well.
The fellow who offered me the rifle has gone pig chasing for a few days so I can't even ring him for more pics. Its going to be a long week............
Thanks again,
Underlever.



Edited by CptCurl (08/08/10 09:08 PM)

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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5307
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Henry Mystery [Re: underlever]
      #165920 - 08/08/10 09:03 PM

Well I'll be damned!

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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