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Hunting >> Hunting in Africa & hunting dangerous game
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Ingwe
.275 member


Reged: 08/07/04
Posts: 70
Loc: Texas
Re: Dbl 9.3x74R or Bolt 458 for DG in close charge? [Re: 4seventy]
      #17387 - 29/07/04 12:20 PM

Will, I can't believe you took the 9.3 twice, and then defected to the other camp! I think your first instinct was right!

Boy, some of you guys make it out like that if the shooter has a 9.3, and he does his part with either one of his 2 shots, he is still out of luck because the 9.3 is too lame to do ITS part, and this is simply not so. As long as I have a cartridge that will do its part, I will take 2 of those over 1 of anything else, anytime. You guys make it sound like if I put a 9.3 320 gr solid right on the brain or spine, that the 9.3 will just bounce right off, and the animal won't even hardly know that he has been shot, and then he will laugh at my puny effort, and then proceed to kill me. Man, we are talking about a 9.3 here, not a .17 HMR!

Boy, you guys sure have an awful lot of confidence that your one big shot won't miss, not even by an inch, and an amazing lack of confidence in the ability of the 9.3 to do its part. OK, but just keep in mind, that if you do miss your one big chance by an inch, it's not gonna be pretty! But hey, it's your life. I agree with what Major Boddington said at the Houston Safari Club a couple months ago, "..contrary to popular opinion, these animals are NOT bullet proof! If you put the bullet where it's supposed to go, they'll fall down!" I am sorry, and I really don't mean any disrespect, but I just cannot believe that you guys would swap a precious second shot for more but worthless FPE's. Those extra FPE's are a poor substitute for another chance to put a bullet where you really need it.

--------------------

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Will
.333 member


Reged: 04/02/03
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Re: Dbl 9.3x74R or Bolt 458 for DG in close charge? [Re: Ingwe]
      #17405 - 29/07/04 09:32 PM

Ingwe,

You are trying to make me out to be flip-flopping on this but I am talking about two different situations.

There are different types of charges. These recent buffalo disasters sounded to me like ... boom, the buffalo is there. There was no time to even try to aim. Maybe just enough time for a snap shot. In that case a 458 is going to be better unless you have the presence of mind to pull both triggers simultaneously on the 9.3 double. Is that really going to happen for most tourists?

Then there are charges when you have at least 2 or 3 seconds to shoot, when you a chance at getting off two aimed shots.

In any case you cannot make the 9.3 politically correct. At 3800 ft-lbs or less compared to something close to 5000 ft-lbs for the 458, they are not equal for any single shot.



--------------------
_________________________________________________
Bill Stewart

Once you have been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.

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Ingwe
.275 member


Reged: 08/07/04
Posts: 70
Loc: Texas
Re: Dbl 9.3x74R or Bolt 458 for DG in close charge? [Re: Will]
      #17441 - 30/07/04 07:25 AM

Hi Will,

I'm sorry - I wasn't trying to make you sound like John Kerry. I didn't know you were talking about 2 different situations. I thought we were all talking about the same situation, because, like I said earlier, the shooter would have time for two aimed shots from the double, but only one from the bolt.

But I would still take the 9.3. That 3800 FPE is more than enough to make mush of a brain or spine, so the second chance would be of more value to me than that extra 1200 FPE.. Brain mush is brain mush. I will go you guys one farther than that - I would rather have a 30.06 double, loaded with 220 gr solids, than one single shot from a .458 bolt..

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Learn from other people's mistakes - you can't live long enough to make them all yourself.

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Dbl 9.3x74R or Bolt 458 for DG in close charge? [Re: Ingwe]
      #17465 - 31/07/04 01:13 AM

Slightly off the subject.

Iv'e heard that in a double you should out a SN controlled expansion in the right barrel and a solid in the left in case of a charge. Opinions?

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
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Re: Dbl 9.3x74R or Bolt 458 for DG in close charge? [Re: bonanza]
      #17478 - 31/07/04 07:29 AM

In reply to:

Iv'e heard that in a double you should out a SN controlled expansion in the right barrel and a solid in the left in case of a charge. Opinions?



For DG hunted in thick stuff it is a REAL BAD idea.
Load both barrels with (Woodleigh) solids and leave the softpoints at home!

Edited by 4seventy (31/07/04 08:27 AM)

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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Dbl 9.3x74R or Bolt 458 for DG in close charge? [Re: 4seventy]
      #17530 - 02/08/04 10:52 PM

470,

I'm new to double shooting, but I've worked up some loads which are regulating my .375 in each bullet weight (235,270,300,350) to 6 shots under 3" and dead center at 50 yards. But I don't know squat about hunting with it. I want to go for Cape Buff. in 2006 and will have the gun sorted. I just want make sure I choose the correct bullet. Why solids?

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Dbl 9.3x74R or Bolt 458 for DG in close charge? [Re: Ingwe]
      #17531 - 02/08/04 10:53 PM

" I will go you guys one farther than that - I would rather have a 30.06 double, loaded with 220 gr solids, than one single shot from a .458 bolt.. "

Please explain.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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8x56mn
.300 member


Reged: 26/02/04
Posts: 149
Loc: Wine Country, Finger Lakes Wa...
Re: Dbl 9.3x74R or Bolt 458 for DG in close charge? [Re: Ingwe]
      #17533 - 03/08/04 12:21 AM

Am I understanding that you have a 9.3x74R load for a 325 gr. solid, that travel over 3,000 fps I want one!

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Dbl 9.3x74R or Bolt 458 for DG in close charge? [Re: bonanza]
      #17534 - 03/08/04 12:59 AM

Bonanza,
Solids give you deeper straight line penetration which gives you a good wound channel.
Solids also tend to retain most of their original weight..
Hope that makes sense.
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Dbl 9.3x74R or Bolt 458 for DG in close charge? [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #17535 - 03/08/04 01:12 AM

"Bonanza,
Solids give you deeper straight line penetration which gives you a good wound channel.
Solids also tend to retain most of their original weight..
Hope that makes sense."

Not really. Because the controled expansion bullet should retain most of it's weight and open up to 1.5 to 2 times it's caliber. However, solids have been in use for 100 years and have proven to be good killers.


--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Dbl 9.3x74R or Bolt 458 for DG in close charge? [Re: bonanza]
      #17539 - 03/08/04 08:38 AM

In reply to:

470,

I'm new to double shooting, but I've worked up some loads which are regulating my .375 in each bullet weight (235,270,300,350) to 6 shots under 3" and dead center at 50 yards. But I don't know squat about hunting with it. I want to go for Cape Buff. in 2006 and will have the gun sorted. I just want make sure I choose the correct bullet. Why solids?



Bonanza,
First off regarding your cape buff hunt and what bullet to use, it would be advisable to take advice from the PH you will be hunting with.

Why do I prefer solids?
Penetration penetration penetration!
With solids you can take your shot from ANY angle.
You cannot do this with a softpoint.

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Will
.333 member


Reged: 04/02/03
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Re: Dbl 9.3x74R or Bolt 458 for DG in close charge? [Re: bonanza]
      #17544 - 03/08/04 12:41 PM

Bonanza,

Don't pay any attention to these guys.

If it was me, I would use two 300 gr. Swifts in your double. Wait for a nice broadside shot on your buff and if hit correctly the buff will go down in short order, and finish it off with the second barrel.

Done.

--------------------
_________________________________________________
Bill Stewart

Once you have been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Dbl 9.3x74R or Bolt 458 for DG in close charge? [Re: Will]
      #17554 - 03/08/04 10:44 PM

Isn't one of the beauties of the double is, one can load a soft point and solid, then choose which one depending on the shot required?

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Dbl 9.3x74R or Bolt 458 for DG in close charge? [Re: bonanza]
      #17563 - 04/08/04 07:59 AM

In reply to:

Isn't one of the beauties of the double is, one can load a soft point and solid, then choose which one depending on the shot required?



Bonanza,
That is a good theory which works great in books, on the net, and in the gun room.
In the field it is a very different story.

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
.400 member


Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Dbl 9.3x74R or Bolt 458 for DG in close charge? [Re: bonanza]
      #17570 - 04/08/04 12:56 PM

Bonanza,you asked a question about solids and buffalo and received answers from 2 people who have both hunted buff(one being me).
We didnt read it in a magazine or see it on the net.

"First hand experience."

Out on flood plains you dont have trees to climb or hide behind or a vehicle close by to wisk you away from danger if things go wrong.
Use solids or suffer the consequences.

ALAN

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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jgttechjunkie
.275 member


Reged: 20/02/04
Posts: 59
Re: Dbl 9.3x74R or Bolt 458 for DG in close charge? [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #17572 - 04/08/04 03:17 PM

There is a fundamental principal that works when hunting: KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid. I have seen experienced people do some foolish things when excited - no one who is not a well trained and experienced professional should expect that they will be able to coolly decide which barrel to shoot when something mean is close to stomping on them.

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