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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Shotguns
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iqbal
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Reged: 05/02/03
Posts: 778
Loc: Karachi,Pakistan
Semi-Autos vs.Double bbls.
      #1638 - 14/02/03 03:06 AM

Alot of hunters nowadays are going in for semi-autos as they are lighter,have less recoil and offer more shots(4to5)at game.The question is whether this is ethical in as much that the bird has hardly any chance,rather let me say "is it sporting".I firmly believe that if you cannot down a bird with two shots then you should let it go.Besides whats the fun in banging away in the hope that you may be lucky and down the bird.
I would like comments from fellow hunters both for and against.

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gryphon
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Re: Semi-Autos vs.Double bbls. [Re: iqbal]
      #1641 - 14/02/03 06:31 AM

We had our semi-autos taken outlawed here in Oz and it still hurts me to remember my plastic fantastic Beretta 5 shot being crunched at the gun buyback program.Getting to the point versus doubles,how can i forget seeing five pacific black ducks down the hill on a hole in the home creek and stalking down to the hole unseen from a long way back and then having the five get up and me swinging with Bam =1 bam =2 bam=3 bam=4 bam=5 and proudly thinking how good it felt to have five separate targets get up and five down (no broken wings all dead instantly) these sorts of days you cant have with a double anytime.I have also been lucky enough to do much the same with quail.So for me the semi-auto rules fella`s.

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Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Semi-Autos vs.Double bbls. [Re: iqbal]
      #1649 - 14/02/03 05:18 PM

Iqbal

I started shooting with a double .410 shotgun and probably shot the best with it that i ever have since.

Then I graduated to an old hammer 12 gauge with which I also was reasonably successful. But the barrels are actually twist welded (I believe) and probably not that safe.

Then I used a 12 g Mossber pump action shotgun and could actually shoot it faster than my friends with semi-autos.

But one day I noticed as I fired the fifth shot and could see four other wads falling from the sky and the pigeons still all flying off, that quantity does not equal quality shooting. So I went back to side by side doubles.

I still have my pump action (under a special permit) but I much prefer to shoot the doubles.


--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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iqbal
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Re: Semi-Autos vs.Double bbls. [Re: gryphon]
      #1658 - 15/02/03 04:12 AM

OK.Ducks i understand since you don't get enough time to reload a dbbl.but what about partridge or pheasent or quail etc.Is it sporting to down 3to4 all at once especially if you have a game limit of say 5 birds.

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gryphon
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Re: Semi-Autos vs.Double bbls. [Re: iqbal]
      #1662 - 15/02/03 07:13 AM

IS IT SPORTING? Dam right it is mate--you and the gun are there to take game in the first instance,ok we are also there to take in the sights and scents etc but the primary interest is to take game otherwise we wouldnt be there with a gun in the first place.I think it is very sporting to be able to take multiple targets out of a flock--if you are good enough and to be good you must have lots of shots to enable you to get there.We always used semi`s over fox dens using terriers to flush the foxes and believe me when a fox pair get out in a rocky creek bed stepping and jumping from stone to stone they often need more than two shots,something that a double cant deliver in time enough.(at $40 each for skins) What a joy it is to take quail that lift in a strong wing and go back over the top of you like skeet clays its bloody sporting then mate and often you do need the extra shots to lift your bag.Picture this---15 birds get up and with the double you may shoot two-three birds,the auto obviously increases your chances if you are good enough and if the birds go over into the neighbors property that may just be your day--finished with two birds.I myself started most of my shotgunning with a single barrel Baikal,something that had a waterpipe for a barrel and a choke that could be only described as super x super,this took some real aiming to shoot quail and when i went to semi auto that one barrel made it a very easy transition.Yes purists will always argue for doubles,though remember when o+u`s came out the old boys were horrified,now the o+u has taken right over but give me back my Berretta anyday,anyway i`m finished rambling haha.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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Mpofu
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Re: Semi-Autos vs.Double bbls. [Re: iqbal]
      #2051 - 13/03/03 09:56 PM

It is not acceptable practice to use semi-autos on driven pheasant or partridge in the UK. Mainly because the other guns will be at a serious disadvantage, ( the costs for the day are shared out amongst the guns.)
The argument about not firing the third barrel at a bird, if one has missed the first two shots doesn't really hold water, as there are not many birds that will still be in range for the third barrel !
I use the Beretta 'Eureka' for wood pigeon, where one can quite often fire off up to 300/400 hundred shots in a days shooting over decoys. The shooting is a lot quicker, and the reduced recoil makes a substantial difference.
I also use it for Duck, Goose and Rabbit shooting.
I use the O/U for formal driven days, and rough shooting over the Spaniels.
M.

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ovis
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Reged: 26/01/03
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Loc: Homer, Alaska
Re: Semi-Autos vs.Double bbls. [Re: iqbal]
      #2062 - 14/03/03 07:56 PM

Guys,

They're all good but I prefer doubles, sxs. I shoot a Parker Brothers(original) built in 1923. No, my Browning humpback Auto5 is more efficient but the Parker........well, I guess it would be my favorite.

Joe

--------------------
"Where there's a hobble, there's hope."

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Hobie
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Reged: 15/01/04
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Loc: Staunton, VA, USA
Re: Semi-Autos vs.Double bbls. [Re: ovis]
      #8602 - 10/02/04 08:44 AM

I shoot a Parker Bros. 12 bore, a Fox-Sterlingworth 12 bore, Ithaca 20 bore, Winchester 101s in 12 and 20, and my first gun, a 20 ga. Springfield-Stevens. I also have a 16 ga "Truvalue" made by Stevens. Yes, I have 2 pumps but no autos. One pump is a slug gun and the other has an abbreviated 20" barrel (yeah I have a hunting length barrel but never use it) for keeping evil at bay. All the hunting guns are doubles or singles (almost forgot ). More fun.

I was raised on doubles anyway, side-by-sides at that. No problem. It is the pumps and autos that feel odd to me. I'm not into kill, kill, kill anyway. So few quail now, I'd leave the covey after one. Like to see the dogs work. Dove, well, a single might be a "handicap" but a double isn't. Really can't think of anything except home defense where a double is a handicap.

--------------------
Sincerely,

Hobie
"Duty is the rent we pay for life." The Queen Mother
116th Infantry Regiment "The Stonewall Brigade"

Edited by Hobie (13/02/04 02:40 PM)

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Dark_Helmet
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Reged: 09/01/04
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Re: Semi-Autos vs.Double bbls. [Re: Hobie]
      #8691 - 11/02/04 08:00 AM

the real reason for semi-autos is two fold:

trippling on a single covey-rise (seen it done at least 12 times), and lighter carry weight... my dad's benelli weighs 5.25lbs, my o/u weighs in at about 7 IIRC.

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

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DBBill
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Reged: 25/05/03
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Loc: Southern California, USA
Re: Semi-Autos vs.Double bbls. [Re: iqbal]
      #8826 - 12/02/04 10:10 AM

I have two Beretta 391s that I use on occassion.

Every once in awhile a local club will throw a 500-bird marathon event for American Trap....I simply switch to a trap barrel and trap stock and go shoot....no strain on the shoulder. I will also use the same gun with a different barrel and stock for the infrequent waterfowl hunting I get to do...again the absence of pounding recoil and the requirement to shoot steel shot make it a prudent choice over one of my others.

I also have a 20ga 391 Sporting Clays model that I use for dove hunting. It has a 30" barrel and is very smooth swinging. I normally put in the full or improved modified choke and shoot only the high ones leaving the ones in closer range to the youngsters.

These two are also my "loaner" guns when someone is visiting and wants to shoot or someone has a broken gun. I have enough stocks, etc to fit almost anyone and I don't need to worry about them.

Almost everything else is handled by either my 16ga Model 21 or my two primary O/U's --- a K-80 and a MX-8.

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Chasseur
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Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: Semi-Autos vs.Double bbls. [Re: DBBill]
      #8935 - 13/02/04 11:15 AM

Just my 2 cents but,

In good double barreled game guns (as opposed to clays guns, which are heavier), weight is not really a problem, especially in small bores. The real issue is balance, and that depends on you and how well the shotgun fits you. Given the extra length and weight of auto-loaders because of the action, a 28" auto-loader will not seem heavier than a 28" double barreled game gun if they both fit you.



--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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Dark_Helmet
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Reged: 09/01/04
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Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Re: Semi-Autos vs.Double bbls. [Re: Chasseur]
      #9211 - 17/02/04 04:31 AM

I'd have to disagree... a good autoloader IS lighter than a double in field trim. that's in absolute, on the scale, terms. I can't shoot them to save my life, but there is surely nothing better or worse about them. just different.

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

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Chasseur
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Reged: 18/11/03
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Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: Semi-Autos vs.Double bbls. [Re: Dark_Helmet]
      #9225 - 17/02/04 07:41 AM

Dasmafia,

I'm not disagreeing with you on the actual weight of a double barreled vs. auto loader. Because generally speaking you are absolutely right, double barreled guns are generall heavier (though your adverage 12 guage SxS game gun is only about 6-1/2lbs not real heavy). I am talking about how the gun feels in your hands in terms of balance and "felt weight" (for lack of a better term). For some people a autoloader or pump given the extra length of the action and the general "bulky" nature of the repeating gun they can feel heavier. For me a 28" barrel auto-loader feels heavier than a nicely balanced double, even though the double might be heavier. But that's just me, as I always say, shoot what you like!

Chasseur

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Semi-Autos vs.Double bbls. [Re: gryphon]
      #9227 - 17/02/04 08:03 AM

For Gryphon

I got a call from a friend in Aus.

"Hey, what are you doing?"

"Been duck shootin at Mel's joint."

"How did you do?"

"Shot 365, mostly just jump shootin on the creek."

"365! What's the limit?"

"Oh, five. But It doesn't matter as the season doesn't start till next week."

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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Dark_Helmet
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Re: Semi-Autos vs.Double bbls. [Re: Chasseur]
      #9231 - 17/02/04 08:46 AM

chasseur,

I think I see your point... my 28" field-grade Ithica/SKB is indeed heavier on the scale than my dad's benelli montefeltro, but the o/u SKBs are not known for being particularly light and the montefeltro is THE lightest autoloader in the world IIRC. both are 20ga.

my double sports fixed-choke 28" barrels, his is 26" with choke tubes, about an inch of overall length difference...

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

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Chasseur
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Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: Semi-Autos vs.Double bbls. [Re: Dark_Helmet]
      #9233 - 17/02/04 09:02 AM

Dasmafia,

How do you like the SKB? Is it very different than the old Miroku O/Us? I'm getting my girlfriend into shooting skeet and (hopefully) birdhunting. Looking for a used, decently priced O/U in 20 guage. The miruko or SKB would work well for me price wise.

Thanks!

PS: how goes the 35 Whelan sighting-in? Just been playing arround with the iron sights on my '06 today. I'm changing scopes, so I thought I should check those iron out, and they had lost their "zero". I've forgotten how much I hate sighting in irons...

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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Dark_Helmet
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Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Re: Semi-Autos vs.Double bbls. [Re: Chasseur]
      #9313 - 18/02/04 06:44 AM

I love the SKB, I won't pay money for another o/u, they really do shoot AND feel that good... mine is a late 50s/early 60s model 500, but still as smooth as day one.

I'm picking up an SKB 785 Skeet sometime soon (the trap models have NO drop, and I just can't handle that) and am very excited about actually throwing more than 7/8oz of #8 at the rocks... but all in good time, Guns Unlimited in Omaha (national SKB importer!) has a demo 785 skeet with ported 30" barrels that I'm mulling over for $900 off retail... beavertail fore-end too...

the 35 Whelen is still at the gunsmith getting the safety worked, I should have it in a few weeks (they also have the 30-06 right now)

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

Edited by dasMafia (18/02/04 06:47 AM)

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M82A1Barret50Cal
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Reged: 12/04/04
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Loc: ACT, Australia
Re: Semi-Autos vs.Double bbls. [Re: Dark_Helmet]
      #13852 - 22/04/04 03:45 PM

Well at the moment I am saving for a Browning Citori O/U 12ga. I agree that if you can't hit the game in 2 shots then you don't deserve a 3rd. In Australia the semis are illegal unless you have a Class C licence so it's a bit of a non-issue here anyway. But if I had the choice I would still go for the over under. Semi-autos seem like they are cheating in a way to me. Maybe that's just how I was brought up.

M82A1

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jgttechjunkie
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Re: Semi-Autos vs.Double bbls. [Re: iqbal]
      #19436 - 26/09/04 10:33 AM

I used to do all of my hunting with SxSs, recently bought a pump for 3 1/2 inch steel shot, and am planning to get an autoloader.

From what I can see the main disadvantage of the autoloader (as well as the pump) is that it sprays empty plastic shells over the landscape. In a field shoot they are easy to pick up, but standing in the reeds in a slough it is more difficult.

I know a lot of people don't pick up their empties, but I just think that is littering.

The autoloader (or pump) makes much more sense in a blind - easier to load while barrel is pointed straight up.

We in North America are restricted to three shots for waterfowl - have to use a plug - so the question of five shots doesn't come up. With the steel shot we now are forced to use that third shot can drop a wounded goose and comes in handy. Usually though if you have not connected on the first two shots the geese will be long gone and it is senseless to try a third shot.

This morning a hunting partner on a goose hunt, using an auto, told me that he went hunting with some people using SxSs and OUs who were able to reload and shoot four shots quicker than he was able to shoot his three and then reload to shoot a fourth.

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jgttechjunkie
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Re: Semi-Autos vs.Double bbls. [Re: iqbal]
      #19442 - 26/09/04 12:49 PM

To elaborate further on my earlier post: If someone asked me whether my 'different' shotgun was safe to shoot, I would answer that the small splinters of wood flying off the stock and hitting my face smarted a bit, but I was used to it. If they asked what it was I would respond that it was a primitive weapon, that I enjoyed the handicap of using it because for a person with my advanced shooting skills using the fine equipment the questioner was using was not enough of a challenge.

If you feel awkward in a social setting because of the quality of what you own or wear you need some more mileage (i.e. age and experience) or you need some acting lessons. Money or a higher position will not do it - in fact with either of these factors you might find yourself being one of the people who act particularly superior to former peers.

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jgttechjunkie
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Reged: 20/02/04
Posts: 59
Re: Semi-Autos vs.Double bbls. [Re: iqbal]
      #19443 - 26/09/04 12:52 PM

Sorry - my previous post was intended for a different thread!

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