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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3556
Loc: Colorado
Double Dilemma
      #163773 - 10/07/10 03:00 AM

OK, I have been thinking (and we all know how dangerous that can be) about my gun collection and which way to go with it in the future.
I am sure that most of us, from time to time, "re-evaluate" our investments and where we want to allocate our resources.
So, and I am sure there are a lot of differing opinions here, just as a loose poll, what would you prefer:
My position now - a collection of mostly bolt guns - some good, some lower grade fodder as well as a couple mid grade doubles and some good singles.
Or, moving the majority of the collection - mostly the bolt guns - and getting into something like a high grade double?
I posed this question to bouldersmith and he suggested that I lay a bunch of guns out on the floor and pick out the ones that don't excite me. That didn't work - THEY ALL EXCITE ME!!

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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GroovyMike
.300 member


Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 229
Loc: NY
Re: Double Dilemma [Re: Huvius]
      #163774 - 10/07/10 03:06 AM

It is very difficult for me to part with any of them, but I am doing the same. My plan is to fund the slow purchase of better quality pieces by selling off the lower quality items. I'm moving away from semi auto rifles and toward side by side hammer guns.

--------------------
Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart. Psalm 37:4

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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Double Dilemma [Re: GroovyMike]
      #163775 - 10/07/10 03:22 AM

DDDDDDDDid I hear you say the word DDDDDDDDDDDDouble?

I'm just crazy about DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDoubles!

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Buchsemann
.333 member


Reged: 12/12/08
Posts: 439
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Re: Double Dilemma [Re: CptCurl]
      #163784 - 10/07/10 05:41 AM

Curl,

I couldn't help but notice your reply on the DGS forum wherein, while commenting on a thread titled "Still Finding Sleepers", you posted some pics of an Alexander Henry .450 BPE that you picked up recently. You said that you would most likely be posting additional pics on NE, have you done so as yet and if so where would they be? It looks like a sweet find.

Regards,

Buchseman

--------------------
Happy the man, and happy he alone,
He who can call today his own:
He who, secure within, can say,
Tomorrow do thy worst, for I have lived today.

- John Dryden

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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Double Dilemma [Re: Buchsemann]
      #163785 - 10/07/10 05:57 AM

Buchseman,

I haven't done any photography of that rifle yet because of time constraints. It's probably still several weeks away. It's a beauty!

Here's a teaser for now. A shot of the left lockplate and the mortise from which I pulled it. The head of the stock has absolutely no oil accumulation and no cracks whatsoever.





This is one interesting rifle. It will take a while for me to study it and do a writeup, but the wait will be worth it.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Double Dilemma [Re: CptCurl]
      #163786 - 10/07/10 05:58 AM

P.S.

Let's not hijack Huvius' thread.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Buchsemann
.333 member


Reged: 12/12/08
Posts: 439
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Re: Double Dilemma [Re: CptCurl]
      #163788 - 10/07/10 07:28 AM

Huvius,

Sorry about that. Curl has a little something there that is a bit distracting.

Getting back on point (your thread); as a collector it seems quite normal to re-evaluate ones collection every once in a while. As a fellow gun nut they are all neat but like any work of art it's probably good for the collector community to move them along for others to enjoy. I would imagine we've all started with the guns we could afford at the time but with luck and hopefully with improved fortune our ability to "bump it up some" comes about. Like many I'm bummed by the market sucking as it does with regard to the selling of the "entry level" collector arms. Most of my dealer buds agree that one can sell $300 guns all day and those that typically buy the higher-end $60K plus guns still can. The $2K to $5K lower grade (many engraved) range bites, at least that's the way it looks to me and a few others I know at the moment. I think we all need to be patient and continue to keep an eye peeled for the one that we just have to have. Ah yes, the other thrill of the hunt ... reference Curls latest acquisition

Buchseman

--------------------
Happy the man, and happy he alone,
He who can call today his own:
He who, secure within, can say,
Tomorrow do thy worst, for I have lived today.

- John Dryden

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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Double Dilemma [Re: Buchsemann]
      #163789 - 10/07/10 07:42 AM

Ok Guys,,, What's the DGS forum? I've never seen that one.
Curl, is that a 577/500 AH? I have the same thing (not as nice)but the cocking indicators are MIA.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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Riflesmith
.224 member


Reged: 04/04/10
Posts: 5
Loc: Lloydminster, Canada
Re: Double Dilemma [Re: Buchsemann]
      #163791 - 10/07/10 07:49 AM

Hey Huvius I was pondering the same thing just this spring. I have wanted a double for quite awhile and figured it was time. Now I am no financial expert but I know that high end walnut is going up in price faster than my rrsp's (canada) so I cleaned house of all the stuff I wasn't using and figured never would. Wow did that add up in a hurry. Mailed off my deposit and now the waiting begins!!!!

Now I didn't have to sell any guns just parts, scopes, bullets, brass for projects I could hold off on. So my descision was a little less difficult. Whatever you decide good luck!

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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Double Dilemma [Re: Riflesmith]
      #163793 - 10/07/10 08:18 AM

AkMike,

Here's a link to the forum and thread Buchseman is referencing:

http://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthrea...19a778a73623fc7

The rifle is .450 3 1/4" BPE.

Huvius,

I hope you recognize what you are getting yourself into. You'll find yourself flat broke, cruising the internet for your next find, thinking only of double rifles. Each fix quiets you for shorter and shorter periods of time.

. . . . but you'll be sublimely happy!

It's an obsession. Go for it! There's no greater satisfaction than owning, handling, and shooting double rifles.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Re: Double Dilemma [Re: CptCurl]
      #163794 - 10/07/10 09:22 AM


Huvius!.

English doublerifles are a cronic "brainbug"...And you are stung.

Go get the medicin...Git `r done!.

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Buchsemann
.333 member


Reged: 12/12/08
Posts: 439
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Re: Double Dilemma [Re: rigbymauser]
      #163797 - 10/07/10 03:18 PM

Huvius,

Going back in your thread I see I wondered off waxing about poor sales in the lower end gun market and failed to answer your poll, you were looking for opinions. You have probably heard this before but if your looking for good investments in firearms it's really hard to say what will gain the most in value, percentage wise, but a good rule of thumb is to stick with high original condition pieces. The NE forum as well as many others show that as gun nuts our interests are extremely diverse. An awful lot of money has been made by people dealing in single action Colts, classic lever action Winchesters, and others that have a large following. I started converting my collection to double rifles many years ago but that is primarily because I see them as second only to great sex. Some of my friends think I'm nuts as they see double rifles as "too frick'n sensitive to loads" and "just like a woman" with regard to mood swings. The later brings up a good second rule of thumb that you have probably heard before: You should always like your purchase enough that if nobody else wants to buy it you'll still be happy owning it. It definitely sucks when you've fallen out of love with it and nobody else wants it either.

My personal choice and latest interest - Double rifles and Oberndorf Mausers. I have absolutely no idea what will happen with the Oberndorf Mauser market but they are starting to draw me in like a siren song. Finding a choice Oberndorf in 9.3X64 Brenneke would probably make my day but that's me. There are probably better choices as investments but for the moment, I could care less.

Regards,

Buchseman

PS - If you do end up buying a "high grade double" (I trust you're talking rifle here) post lots of pictures. It has become clear here on NE that many of us like to drool over pictures of nice doubles ... like the pictures that Curl will be posting of his recently acquired Alexander Henry .450 3 1/4 BPE.

--------------------
Happy the man, and happy he alone,
He who can call today his own:
He who, secure within, can say,
Tomorrow do thy worst, for I have lived today.

- John Dryden

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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3556
Loc: Colorado
Re: Double Dilemma [Re: Buchsemann]
      #163810 - 11/07/10 12:56 AM

Buchesman,
Sounds like you have the same affliction as I - Oberndorfs.
I have been on a tear lately buying Mausers but have also been picking up Brit singles - mostly Farquharsons.
I think the good Farquharsons will always be in high demand at the right price and Oberndorf Mausers too for that matter. Also, unless I resign myself to not ever shooting many of my guns, the diversity in chamberings really can complicate things as far as load development and choosing any particular rifle for an outing. I do enjoy reloading, but man, procuring dies, brass and bullets for every rifle I have has taken on a life of it's own...
The doubles I own are pretty good ones - Greener, Manton, and the Springer - and actually make sense for a North American hunter, but there has always been a yearning for a DG double.
Ultimately, I think turning some bolt guns - and I have some good 'uns - and buying an H&H Royal (old one of course) would be a move I wouldn't regret.
Then would be the question of what goes and what stays in the safe...

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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Buchsemann
.333 member


Reged: 12/12/08
Posts: 439
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Re: Double Dilemma [Re: Huvius]
      #163814 - 11/07/10 02:43 AM

Huvius,

It sounds like our long term goal, with regards to collecting firearms, is pretty much the same too.

Trimming some of your collection down to buy an early H&H Royal sounds like a great plan to me. It would certainly be an impressive addition to any collection. As our friend Mehul always reminds us, do post lots of pictures when you buy it. I haven't narrowed my "have to have it" gun to one in particular as yet but it may happen someday. I'm still in a design, caliber, and grade mode with my German arms as a continuation of where my father left off. I have but a few left of a particular American shotgun maker that was the focus of my collecting for almost twenty years. The sale of those guns and others to follow will fuel my double rifle purchases. I enjoyed them for many years and I hope the new owners will as well. For now I think I'd be very happy to have a dozen or so "knock-out" double rifles and as long as I can get around and hunt I will retain a selection of "working guns" for each quarry. I can imagine that my comment of being very happy with a dozen or so double rifles could sound arrogant or "loddy dah" to some but please recognize it as something coming from an addict. It is a lofty aspiration for sure but to me setting it high is better than the alternative. As a GGCA (German Gun Collectors Association) member I will continue to upgrade my father's combination gun collection as well. And then again there are those stunning British BPE doubles that keep showing up on NE ... aaaaaggggghhh! I know I need help but I don't want it

Best regards,

Buchseman

PS - Is there an "Out of your mind Club" for gun collectors? Perhaps a Gun Collectors Anonymous (GCA)?

--------------------
Happy the man, and happy he alone,
He who can call today his own:
He who, secure within, can say,
Tomorrow do thy worst, for I have lived today.

- John Dryden

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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Double Dilemma [Re: Buchsemann]
      #163816 - 11/07/10 04:40 AM

Quote:

PS - Is there an "Out of your mind Club" for gun collectors? Perhaps a Gun Collectors Anonymous (GCA)?





Just follow me!

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3556
Loc: Colorado
Re: Double Dilemma [Re: Buchsemann]
      #163852 - 12/07/10 12:11 AM

Yes, a dozen knock-out doubles wouldn't suck...
There could be an issue with staying focused on my goal of course.
You guys know how it is. You sell a few things or save up a tidy sum and are on your way to your goal of that "one" gun you really want. Then, you go to a gunshow, surf the web for a while, maybe a friend calls up and says "have you seen the (insert Gibbs, Jeff, Rigby...) so and so has for sale!? Then whooosh! that plan got derailed!
I just don't know if I have the conviction to stay on course and resist those temptations that are always lurking in the shadows.
For those in the know, are the Holland Royals all they are cracked up to be? I am thinking 500/450 or 500/465.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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cowboy
.275 member


Reged: 20/03/04
Posts: 60
Loc: Northern Wyoming, USA
Re: Double Dilemma [Re: Huvius]
      #163853 - 12/07/10 12:47 AM


Huvius,

I recently acquired a vintage H&H Royal 500/465. Like you, I had
quite a few firearms (mostly SxS shotguns) that I hadn't used in a
few years. I worked with George @ Champlin's, ended up trading
7 shotguns (newer Beretta, 2 Parkers, 2 Winchesters, 1 Purdey ,
1 H&H boxlock) & a 9.3 x 74R double for the Holland.
I still have plenty of shotguns to bird hunt with, so I really don't
miss them. The Holland & Holland is a beautiful piece of art to
me. I've already worked up a good load & plan on taking it to
Tanzania this Sept to go after elephant, buff & hippo.
Sometimes I wonder if it would be smarter to just buy a good working
double (Sabatti, Searcy, Heym,...) & put the extra cash on more trips!
But I guess I am a romantic, I love old rifles (recently picked up a
great 400/350 Rigby falling block single shot made in 1903), old
shotguns & old cars. Even my wife is 2 years older than I am!
I do believe the old classics (whether it is a car, firearm or wife) hold
their values reasonably well. At least that has been my experience.

Good Hunting, Jim

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cowboy
.275 member


Reged: 20/03/04
Posts: 60
Loc: Northern Wyoming, USA
Re: Double Dilemma [Re: cowboy]
      #163854 - 12/07/10 12:56 AM


Huvius,

Here's a link to the Holland & Holland Royal I acquired from Champlin's

It actually looks much better in person, great engraving, pristine bores,

shoots very accurately & seems to handle well. This is my third double &

I think dragging it through the jesse in Africa will only increase her value

(at least to me!)

Jim

http://www.champlinarms.com/Default.aspx...&GunID=1520

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BPEBuff
.275 member


Reged: 24/03/10
Posts: 61
Loc: Norfolk, England
Re: Double Dilemma [Re: cowboy]
      #163892 - 12/07/10 07:23 PM

Gents,

I was a realtively happy and contented soul, proud of his gun collection until I contracted a super heavy dose of 'Geminus Gun Morbusau' (or Double Gin Disease). Result - happiness shattered and the inculcation of a desire to sell everything in my collection (except the Lawson .450 Express DR)for that latest priceless treasure, lovingly and expertly crafted from steel and walnut! The more so if the object of my desire is encased in all her original finery, aged leather, accessories dappled with the patina of a finer age.............

My bank savings and investment portfolios are in close and present danger of being liquified to slake my thirst! At the tender age of 55, I should know better but the disease in utterly incurable and my addiction to these forums knows no bounds!

I have specialised in Colt's, Winchesters, old Brit military and fine English shotguns over thirty odd years but there is something indescribable going on here - is there someone at 'The Samaritans' who can help?????

Garry....

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