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Hunting >> Hunting in Australia, NZ & the South Pacific
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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3584
Loc: Colorado
Re: Woodleigh Hydro result [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #164152 - 15/07/10 12:41 AM

This will get some ire up...
Quote:


This is the link if you have not seen what I mean.:

http://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/index.php/products/hydrostatically-stabilised





Is it assumed that these bullets have no deformation when striking soft tissue or even bone?

from link above:
"If the bullet hits hard bone the flesh core dissipates but immediately reforms and the balance between it and the pressure ring restabilises to redirect the bullet in the original direction of travel."

Not buying this statement one bit.
Are we to believe that this bullet can encounter bone, be temporarily disrupted and then magically realign itself in the same "direction of travel"?
Maybe the bullet could be temporarily disrupted and then stabilize again - or calm down as far as yaw, but redirect to its original direction? No way.
We would have to assume that the tip of the bullet is in no way deformed for this to even be posited, and to think this could happen in the short distance of a wound channel? Hard to believe!

I think they mean that the bullet realigns to the original orientation of travel - meaning the bullet is not tumbling - staying on axis to the direction of flight. Orientation and "direction" are not interchangeable terms.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27324
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Woodleigh Hydro result [Re: Mcleish]
      #164154 - 15/07/10 01:00 AM

McLeish - 8" to 12" of drop is easily accounted for in this day of laser rangefinders- everyone has at least one - kinda like chronoraphs any more - everyone has one, don't they?

As to the accuracy, the banded bullets surely do provide. In my rifles, the newer TSX are amazingly accurate, especially in 3 shot groups. The .375/06IMP routinely provides cloverleafs with the 270gr. TSX from 2,550fps to 2,720fps.

Guys around here with .35 Whelens use 250gr. Speers mostly - for moose and experience end to end penetration at 2,450fps MV. Of course, the moose absolutely refuse to take another step after being stern or bow shot with one. They also have a pretty good BC. .446 for the Spitzer and .335 for the Grand Slam, a more deeply penetrating bullet yet.

I'm a bit surprised they don't know the BC for the Hydro - all it takes is 2 chronographs and a 100 yard range. Perhaps it's so low, they don't want to advertise it?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Woodleigh Hydro result [Re: DarylS]
      #164173 - 15/07/10 06:27 AM

I have seen pics posted online where a recovered bullet(from buff) has seemingly no deformation at all in fact so low was it that it was considered almost load worthy again.

Anyway to the deflection issue apparently some of the US finest`s Dept`s (?) are testing and are indeed impressed with the deflection test results at this stage... for the like of shooting a terrorists head on an angle through glass perhaps,who knows?

Heres a pic of a test version stainless tipped pill recovered from a buff



And another standard recovered hydro ...not much sign of any flattening there at all.

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FATBOY404
.400 member


Reged: 14/11/09
Posts: 1730
Loc: QLD
Re: Woodleigh Hydro result [Re: gryphon]
      #164182 - 15/07/10 07:14 AM

Matt how could you say that all projectiles deflect equaly.

I know we wont convince you as you have your own idea's on bullet construction but please read my post on the Hydro's in Zim.

As to the 300 grain Woody PP in 375, I have used heaps of these and I too found them way to soft for big game. I spoke to Geoff about this ages ago and he said he had a heavier constructed one but had to make some way of identifying the harder one's from the original in loaded ammo so people wouldn't take the softer one on DG. The 350 grain PP is a cracker.

You have to do your own tests with bullets in your own rifle.
My 9.3x62 loves the 286 grain Woody PP with perfect performance every time but there are those on here that say they are too hard and wont use them again.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=161312&an=0&page=0#Post161312

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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FATBOY404
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Reged: 14/11/09
Posts: 1730
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Re: Woodleigh Hydro result [Re: FATBOY404]
      #164183 - 15/07/10 07:28 AM

Some 286 grain PP in my 9.3x62.




--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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Mcleish
.275 member


Reged: 30/06/10
Posts: 64
Loc: Southern Tablelands, NSW
Re: Woodleigh Hydro result [Re: FATBOY404]
      #164196 - 15/07/10 10:31 AM

Thanks for all the feedback and debate, this is the advantage of a forum such as this, you can base your decisions on the experience of others rather than bumbling around in the dark chasing your tail and getting nowhere. I am going to order some 225 grain Hydrostatic and some 225 Barnes TSX projectiles today.

Received this email today for Geoff from Woodliegh

Price of 35 cal x 225gr Hydros is $47.40 per 20 plus postage.
BC undetermined at this time.
No significant extra drop over pointy bullets to 200M.
Seat to suit magazine length and throat.
Use SN load, pressure and velocity very close.
Some Mauser 98’s won’t feed properly.
It’s a matter of trial and error.
Regards,
Geoff McDonald

Thanks again for all the assistance

Regards

McLeish

--------------------
Fallow might be small, but they're tasty

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Matt_Graham
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Reged: 26/02/04
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Loc: Australia
Re: Woodleigh Hydro result [Re: FATBOY404]
      #164197 - 15/07/10 10:48 AM

Quote:

Matt how could you say that all projectiles deflect equaly.



I was talking about deflecting off/through brush - not deflecting inside tissue. As far as I am aware there has never been any evidence to suggest for example that a solid projectile will deflect any less or more than a soft point projectile of same dimensions and speed - on a stick say on its way to the target.

I was just commenting on you saying that they will be good for shooting through brush.

--------------------
www.huntaust.com.au

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Matt_Graham
Sponsor


Reged: 26/02/04
Posts: 602
Loc: Australia
Re: Woodleigh Hydro result [Re: Mcleish]
      #164198 - 15/07/10 10:52 AM

Quote:



Received this email today for Geoff from Woodliegh


Some Mauser 98’s won’t feed properly.


This is one thing that concerns me with this projectile...

Dont get me wrong - I am all for new projectiles!!! It just has to be for the right reasons!!

Those guys may well have 'reinvented' the solid projectile ... but I think Barnes already did it....

--------------------
www.huntaust.com.au

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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Woodleigh Hydro result [Re: Matt_Graham]
      #164202 - 15/07/10 12:38 PM

My 358 is a `98 Commercial action and feeds easily,thank phuck!

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FATBOY404
.400 member


Reged: 14/11/09
Posts: 1730
Loc: QLD
Re: Woodleigh Hydro result [Re: gryphon]
      #164207 - 15/07/10 05:13 PM

In regaurd to bullet deflection, Greame Wright is going to do some tests at home in relating to this subject. He has a free standing target frame with dowel on it like ribs but very close together that he will shoot through at different distances from the target with different types of projectiles to try and get a controlled comparision.

To date these actions feed Hydro's just fine.

Brno 602 in 404
CZ 550 in 9.3x62
Ruger M77 in 338 Win Mag

My Brno 600 in 9.3x62 will only feed them from the left hand side of the mag.Nothing Tony Small cant fix when he has time.

Matt you are a "Barnes Man" and thats fine.
For mine even if the Woodlieghs are no better ( which I think they are ) I will use them because they are Australian.

Cheers Neale.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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Matt_Graham
Sponsor


Reged: 26/02/04
Posts: 602
Loc: Australia
Re: Woodleigh Hydro result [Re: FATBOY404]
      #164239 - 15/07/10 11:54 PM

Quote:



Matt you are a "Barnes Man" and thats fine.
For mine even if the Woodlieghs are no better ( which I think they are ) I will use them because they are Australian.



I am not really a Barnes Man as such because for the most part I am still throwing Woodleigh RN softs downrange, for different reasons. I like the Barnes too, even more for some uses. I do love to buy Aussie made as well. Just a bit sceptical about some of the claims that have been made is all..

--------------------
www.huntaust.com.au

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CHAPUISARMES
.416 member


Reged: 16/01/08
Posts: 2908
Loc: DUBBO, NSW, AUSTRALIA
Re: Woodleigh Hydro result [Re: Matt_Graham]
      #164270 - 16/07/10 07:38 AM


Quote: In regard to bullet deflection, Greame Wright is going to do some tests at home in relating to this subject. He has a free standing target frame with dowel on it like ribs but very close together that he will shoot through at different distances from the target with different types of projectiles to try and get a controlled comparision. End Quote .

Whatever the outcome it will be: " The Truth, The Whole Truth and Nothing but the Truth" if Graeme Wright does and reports on it's ability.

Cheers,

Jeff Gray

.

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kaizer2007
.300 member


Reged: 04/06/09
Posts: 101
Loc: Ukraine
Re: Woodleigh Hydro result [Re: Mcleish]
      #165078 - 28/07/10 04:39 AM

Quote:

Quote:

The Hydro with a BC of .450 - I'm having difficulty with that high a number. I would believe something in the range of .275 to about .330, though.

Not only the nose shape, but the bands on the shank are brutal to the BC. The bands create a lot of additonal drag - called parasitic drag due to the eddies in air movement they cause by each and every groove, nothing smooth as in laminar flow. Note the difference between the Barnes "X" bullets of old, the smooth ones, and the TSX now used. There is a huge drop in BC due to the bands, even though the TSX of the same weight is even longer.

Still, in a .35 Whelen, a good shot will not have difficulty with shots to 300 yards - even 350 yards. One merely needs to practise at those ranges. Shooting at 50 or 100 yards and reading drop tables doesn't cut it.



Hi Daryl appreciate your comments on the factors affecting the BC, as I stated in my earlier post I had no idea what the BC was for these projectiles, either do Woodleigh. I do however note that their Protected Point Projectiles have the highest BC per weight in the 35 cal. I know BC isn't everything, however given that a two projectiles have the same killing performance, I would always pick the one that will perform better in terms of ballistics.


I will revise the numbers for the above info. Daryl the purpose of this is not to presume that the drop tables are exact, in fact they are a very crude instrument. They are however the best one available to me to look at the shape of a trajectory and look at what is viable in terms of risk in making a shot. Gryphon did speak earlier of a "rainbow trajectory out of the Whelen", the numbers demonstrate otherwise. No one wants to be a cowboy with 20-30 inch holdovers, these are just not practical IMO, and not fair to the game you are chasing. Knowing the limitations of one’s firearm is important.

Ballistics Table in Yards 35 Whelen - Hydrostatic 225 gr., .275 B.C. www.hornady.com

Range (yards) Muzzle 50 100 200 300 400 500
Velocity (fps) 2620 2461 2308 2017 1750 1511 1307
Energy (ft.-lb.) 3429 3026 2660 2033 1530 1140 853
Trajectory (210 yd. zero) -1.5 1.4 2.9 0.7 -10.2 -32.4 -70.1
Come Up in MOA -1.5 -2.7 -2.7 -0.3 3.2 7.7 13.4


Ballistics Table in Yards 35 Whelen - Hydrostatic 225 gr., .330 B.C. www.hornady.com

Range (yards) Muzzle 50 100 200 300 400 500
Velocity (fps) 2620 2487 2358 2112 1880 1667 1474
Energy (ft.-lb.) 3429 3090 2778 2227 1766 1388 1085
Trajectory (217 yd. zero) -1.5 1.4 2.9 1.0 -8.6 -28.2 -60.4
Come Up in MOA -1.5 -2.7 -2.8 -0.5 2.8 6.7 11.5



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Hi.
OK,If Your information on speeds is resulted correctly, BC in first case it will be
BC-0.304
and in the second BC-0.364

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