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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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CWJ1898
.275 member


Reged: 28/01/09
Posts: 63
Loc: LA, USA
Walter Roll/Franz Sodia M-98 inquiry
      #161104 - 28/05/10 05:48 AM

Gents,
Trying to track down some information on my latest acquisition. It is a Walter Roll M-98 in a full stock configuration with Roll's aluminum trigger guard with steel floorplate dated 1956. However in 1964 the rifle was apparently send off to Franz Sodia for what appears to be a claw mount installation and possibly a matte blue finish. Found it odd that Sodia would mark the rifle with their name if in fact the mount/refinish was all that was done. Any light shed on this would be greatly appreciated!

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dons
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Reged: 18/08/07
Posts: 431
Loc: Essex
Re: Walter Roll/Franz Sodia M-98 inquiry [Re: CWJ1898]
      #161108 - 28/05/10 07:13 AM

Photos please.

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CWJ1898
.275 member


Reged: 28/01/09
Posts: 63
Loc: LA, USA
Re: Walter Roll/Franz Sodia M-98 inquiry [Re: dons]
      #161908 - 11/06/10 09:10 AM

Dons,
Unfortunately I am separated from the rifle and have none to share- a shame as it is emmaculate and in 100% like new condition (caliber 7x64). I have a number of Walter Roll built M-98s but this one is a bit of a mystery. My theories are that its previous owner had Sodia install the claw mount on the rifle and was refinished at that time, the rifle's matte finish is completely uniform. A 7-64 stamp appears on the front claw mount barrel ring with a 4-56 on the rifle's barrel. A Walter Roll marking under the woodline is present and this is not uncommon on Walter Roll made M-98s. I have another Roll full stocked carbine in the same configuration and all aspects (with the exception of the claw mount and finish) are the same. I believe it would be safe to conclude that the rifle was simply worked on by Sodia and marked as such but did not want to discount the possiblility that there might be others so marked or there was some sort of joint venture between the two. Thank you,

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Walter Roll/Franz Sodia M-98 inquiry [Re: CWJ1898]
      #161929 - 11/06/10 05:33 PM

IMHO, Sodia simply followed the tradition of the European gun trade: When they had an order for an better, but not highest quality M98 rifle in 7x64 without special engraving, stock carving or extraordinary barrel shape, they simply bought it in from the specialist gunmaker W.Roell and marked it with their own name for retail. I have seen several Roell Mausers remarked by the retailing gunmakers. I don't think the 7-64 on the receiver ring is a date, that would be 7.64. IMHO it is simply another caliber designation, stamped by Sodia in the same place, on the receiver ring, where it was on other Austrian repeaters, IE Mannlicher-Schoenauers. Usually European gunsmithes reblue the whole barrel assembly after soldering on scope bases and/or doing some file or stamping work.

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CWJ1898
.275 member


Reged: 28/01/09
Posts: 63
Loc: LA, USA
Re: Walter Roll/Franz Sodia M-98 inquiry [Re: kuduae]
      #161954 - 12/06/10 05:32 AM

kuduae,
Thank you for your response on this and in regard to the Merkel buttplate inquiry. Living in Germany as I had for 3 years should have known better. It was stamped in a very similar manner as the 4-56 so overlooked the possibility of a caliber designation. Thank you again and best regards

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Walter Roll/Franz Sodia M-98 inquiry [Re: CWJ1898]
      #162005 - 13/06/10 02:00 AM

Well, CWJ, the European guntrade is quite confusing. Very often a gun was not made by the famous company whose name is plainly visible on the gun. During the last ten years I encountered two "Original Brenneke Hochleistungsbuechsen" for the "Brenneke Patrone 7x64", so both are inscribed. One of them had the 1950s Brenneke Berlin adress, a typical W.Roell Mauser in half stock B shape, with a Roell aluminum triggerguard and a Mauser-Roell 127xxx serial number, apparently made by Roell for Brenneke.
The other is a typical pre-WW2 product with the W.Brenneke Leipzig adress, a long barrel and 3/4 length foreend, similar to the Mauser African model. It is built on a commercial Mauser Oberndorf action with Brenneke's 1933 patent features added, solid left receiver wall and the little bolt guide/handle detent box in front of the bolthandle. A classic pre-war Brenneke product. When we swung the little magazine floorplate releaselever aside a tiny "ESHA" stamp appeared. The same stamp was later found under the barrel shank. So at least this "Original Brenneke" rifle was actually made for old Wilhelm B. by Schmidt & Habermann, Suhl.

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Kiwi_bloke
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Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 256
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Walter Roll/Franz Sodia M-98 inquiry [Re: kuduae]
      #162182 - 16/06/10 08:05 PM

I have a 1957 Walter Röll in 5,6x61 SE vom Hofe. As you say, Röll's name is stamped on the under barrel and hidden by the stock, the floor-plate is aluminium & the trigger guard stove-enamelled. Stock has fine oak leaves and action is silver and scrolled.

There's nothing by way of a name to suggest it was handled by any other gunmaker and the proof marks are all German (Ulm proof-house). However the previous German owner was adamant that he'd purchased it off Karl Hauptmann of Ferlach. Rifles made by Hauptmann in this era all start with a serial number 23 XXXX and this rifle doesn't, so Hauptmann dismissed my suggestion it may have been once associated with them. However, as you say, perhaps a customer simply wanted a more basic rifle than they made in Ferlach and they were happy, in this post-war re-establishment phase, to supply it without their mark. It sounds like Röll happy enough to supply other makers.

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