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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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mauserand9mm
.400 member

Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 1040
Loc: Queensland, Australia

what ever happened to cordite?
#160671 - 19/05/10 08:56 AM

Is there anyone commercially making cordite these days?

Apart for simple metering (I presume it is difficult to consistently meter out a fixed charge of these long strands, actually how did they used to meter it), did it have any other problems?

I'm talking about the small arms type of cordite.

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27005
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: what ever happened to cordite? [Re: mauserand9mm]
#160674 - 19/05/10 09:14 AM

Cordite was chopped for smaller arms and even some shotgun and handgun loads. The smaller the pieces, the faster it burns and it burns very hot & is hard on chamber throats. ALL of the modern powders are much superior. Neat thing is it will burn wet, however to get it ignited, you need a hot spark, something wet primers don't do. in my opinion.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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mauserand9mm
.400 member

Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 1040
Loc: Queensland, Australia

Re: what ever happened to cordite? [Re: DarylS]
#160676 - 19/05/10 09:33 AM

How about the old 303 loads - they used to use the long strands that ran the full length of the inside of the case. Apart from being more difficult to assemble at the factory (the strands are fairly tighly packed and would have to be squeezed even tighter when loading through the case neck), did it too result in greater barrel erosion than the modern powders?

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Tatume
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Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA

Re: what ever happened to cordite? [Re: mauserand9mm]
#160677 - 19/05/10 10:08 AM

Quote:

How about the old 303 loads - they used to use the long strands that ran the full length of the inside of the case. Apart from being more difficult to assemble at the factory (the strands are fairly tighly packed and would have to be squeezed even tighter when loading through the case neck), did it too result in greater barrel erosion than the modern powders?

I don't know about the 303 British, but Cordite was loaded in the 375 H&H before the neck was formed on the case. The propellant was inserted, then the case neck was formed in the die, and then the bullet was seated.

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member

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mauserand9mm
.400 member

Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 1040
Loc: Queensland, Australia

Re: what ever happened to cordite? [Re: Tatume]
#160680 - 19/05/10 11:59 AM

That makes sense and they probably did the same for the 303. I wonder how they metered the load?

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BillPoole
.224 member

Reged: 29/08/09
Posts: 27
Loc: Arizona, USA

Re: what ever happened to cordite? [Re: mauserand9mm]
#160691 - 19/05/10 03:48 PM

they probably had a given number of spools of cordite feeding into a cutting machine and cut the bundle of strands to length at insertion.

--------------------
Bill Poole, Scottsdale, AZ http://arizona-rifleshooting.com/

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9036
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: what ever happened to cordite? [Re: BillPoole]
#160693 - 19/05/10 05:14 PM

I believe cordite is still in production in india for 7,62x51 Nato ammo but dont nail me on this

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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mauserand9mm
.400 member

Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 1040
Loc: Queensland, Australia

Re: what ever happened to cordite? [Re: BillPoole]
#160694 - 19/05/10 05:15 PM

Did some "Googleing" and yes it does burn hotter than the modern powders and it also presented a serious explosion risk to navy ships that used this stuff for their cannons, since Cordite will burn, and explode if confined, when wet (ie underwater). I'd imagine that if a ship were torpedoed, it would still require a portion of the cordite to be above the water level for a a fire (from fuel?) to ignite it initially.

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shooter
.224 member

Reged: 25/11/08
Posts: 45
Loc: UK

Re: what ever happened to cordite? [Re: mauserand9mm]
#160697 - 19/05/10 05:49 PM

As a kid, when i didnt know any better, I used to remove the cordite strands from 375 H&H and use them as a 'fuse' to light firecrackers. The fuse on the firecrackers in india were unpredictable and at times burnt really fast and hence would burst before one had a chance to move away.
Cordite on the other hand when not confined by space, would burn evenly without exploding. whats more, one could line up a number of strands to make the 'fuse' longer esp in dangerous practices like burning blackpowder.

--------------------
Born to hunt, forced to work

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450_366
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Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.

Re: what ever happened to cordite? [Re: mauserand9mm]
#160699 - 19/05/10 05:59 PM

I think cordite is basically the same as our nitro cellulose powders we have now, but ours are extruded? (small holes thru it), cut and grafited together with an agend to reduce burning speed that is put on the surface of the grain before the grafite.

Thats why they are in strands, the only way to get it progressive without the modern way of producing powders.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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mauserand9mm
.400 member

Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 1040
Loc: Queensland, Australia

Re: what ever happened to cordite? [Re: 450_366]
#160705 - 19/05/10 09:49 PM

If if recollect correctly the cordite loaded into 303 rounds was hollow. I thought you could thread some fuse wire through the middle to make a long strand.

Modern powders are either single base (nitrocellulose) or double base (nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin - not sure on the percentages) and have surface retardants. The most common Cordite was nitrocellulose (60%?), nitroglycerin (35?) and vaseline (5%). I think the vaseline may have given it the waterproof qualities. The first type of Cordite had a higher percentage of nitroglycerin but burned too hot and wore out barrels quickly. The vaseline may also provide the retardant property.

There are also a few other types of Cordite made - Wikipedia has them listed.

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DoubleD
.400 member

Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2437
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma

Re: what ever happened to cordite? [Re: mauserand9mm]
#160713 - 19/05/10 11:47 PM

There was a history channel documentary on the Naval Battle at Jutland. Divers went down to the wrecks and brought some cordite strands up to the surface. 80 years under water and those strands still ignited and burned fiercely.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27005
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: what ever happened to cordite? [Re: mauserand9mm]
#160714 - 19/05/10 11:55 PM

Tom and Mauser&9mm have it for the loading sequence - loaded in the straight case, then shoulder & neck formed then bullet seated.
In the .303, the original ctg. had 70gr. of black powder that was in a compressed plug, inserted into the straigth case, then a wad placed on top, then shoulder formed, then bullet seated. The wad was the same size as the inner case diameter and the constriction of the shoulder above, held it in place over the powder. This load produced some 1,900fps with a 215gr. bullet and was considered exceptionally fast for the day due to normal much lower speeds when heavy-for-diameter bullets are used.

I think the early cordite loads merely duplicated the black powder load velocity.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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450_366
.400 member

Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.

Re: what ever happened to cordite? [Re: mauserand9mm]
#160718 - 20/05/10 12:48 AM

Quote:

If if recollect correctly the cordite loaded into 303 rounds was hollow. I thought you could thread some fuse wire through the middle to make a long strand.

Modern powders are either single base (nitrocellulose) or double base (nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin - not sure on the percentages) and have surface retardants. The most common Cordite was nitrocellulose (60%?), nitroglycerin (35?) and vaseline (5%). I think the vaseline may have given it the waterproof qualities. The first type of Cordite had a higher percentage of nitroglycerin but burned too hot and wore out barrels quickly. The vaseline may also provide the retardant property.

There are also a few other types of Cordite made - Wikipedia has them listed.

The modified cordite was 30% nitro/65% non solvable nc/5% vaselin. The modern DB rifle powders has up to around 20% nitro, balistic powders up to 50%.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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panther
.224 member

Reged: 02/03/10
Posts: 20
Loc: british columbia, canada

Re: what ever happened to cordite? [Re: lancaster]
#173582 - 22/12/10 05:04 AM

Quote:

I believe cordite is still in production in india for 7,62x51 Nato ammo but dont nail me on this

I guess you are correct. I know, for sure, they still use cordite in thier Rimless .315 calibre ammo, manufactured by IOF in Khirkee Factory.

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mehulkamdar
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.

Re: what ever happened to cordite? [Re: panther]
#174111 - 26/01/11 02:20 AM

The Indians manufacture cordite at their factory in Aruvankadu in my former home state of Tamilnadu. This is the factory website.

I know that they have been exporting Cordite for some time but that is for use in mining. I am not sure if that could be used for small arms. If someone wants to import it in quantity I guess they would be happy to export it, but I am not sure why anyone would want it especially with its reputation for corrosion . . .

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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