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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
Posts: 1119
Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.

1910 - 1915 Hunting. Shotguns and rifles
#160483 - 15/05/10 09:04 AM

Here is a couple of question for the knowedgable.

Having a discussion and need some details. Hunting in this time frame what would have been a shotgun and load for lion. What was a good grade of "trade gun" that an expedition may have carried a pair of? Any details on loads etc

Same hunt - what might a well heeled hunter carry as a main rifle, either a DR or bolt and what might have been a likely back-up for the gun bearer to carry. Maybe a Manton DR in 470 NE 3 1/4 with rebounding hammers. What 500 for a main gun.

Details please gentlmen.

Von Gruff

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Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

Edited by VonGruff (15/05/10 09:17 AM)

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AkMike
.416 member

Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

Re: 1910 - 1915 Hunting. Shotguns and rifles [Re: VonGruff]
#160484 - 15/05/10 09:21 AM

I've got a 500/450 A. Hollis as does another gent here in town that is from that era. 3 S/N numbers apart. Mine is an underlever with rebounding hammers. The other is hammerless with a top lever.Both have 3 folding leafs and a ladder sight so I'm sure that they were destined for Africa at some point.

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"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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gatsby
.375 member

Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA

Re: 1910 - 1915 Hunting. Shotguns and rifles [Re: VonGruff]
#160497 - 15/05/10 11:57 AM

Certainly a paradox or explora or even a sm explora would fill the bill for use of a 12 gauge on big cats in that time period.

And the ammo

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"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar

Edited by CptCurl (15/05/10 10:27 PM)

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Grenadier
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Reged: 20/02/08
Posts: 570
Loc: North of the Columbia, USA

Re: 1910 - 1915 Hunting. Shotguns and rifles [Re: VonGruff]
#160503 - 15/05/10 02:39 PM

1909 Roosevelt was on safari in Africa. He used a 1903 Springfield .30 caliber, a Winchester model 1895 in .405 Winchester (the famous lion medicine), and a Holland & Holland Royal double rifle in 500-450. He also took two model 1897 Winchester 12 gauge pump shotguns.

"Between the two of them, Theodore and Kermit slew 512 beasts including 17 lion, 11 elephant and 20 rhinoceros."

*As noted by gatsby above, the 12 bore Paradox was also used on a lot of cats by many people.

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Grenadier
.375 member

Reged: 20/02/08
Posts: 570
Loc: North of the Columbia, USA

Re: 1910 - 1915 Hunting. Shotguns and rifles [Re: Grenadier]
#160505 - 15/05/10 02:57 PM

Jim Corbett killed 14 tigers and 9 leopards around that time. Sometimes people like to argue about which rifles he did or didn't use. I have read a few of his books. Sometimes he mentions the caliber, .500 cordite for example, but doesn't give details of the gun. Sometimes he mentions the gun, Martini for example, but doesn't give details of the cartridge. I am sure some expert will be glad to shed some light here.

However, I do remember reading that he was using a 12 gauge shotgun as a weapon of choice for close work on leopards.

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DandyofPunjab
.300 member

Reged: 14/11/05
Posts: 182
Loc: Punjab

Re: 1910 - 1915 Hunting. Shotguns and rifles [Re: Grenadier]
#160507 - 15/05/10 04:18 PM

Grenadier,

AFAIK
Jim Corbett's guns were auctioned in Nyeri Kenya after he left for Happy Hunting Grounds along with skins and trophies of man eaters he shot.

Jim Corbett had
.450/400 Jeffery (I think in Keith Elmer collection)
.500 BPE underlever by Manton &Co (Not sure)
.275 Made by Westley Richards (He shot one Man eater with it)
The Martini mentioned would most probably will be a .450 because it was a Military cartridge then rifle were very common
12 bore and he also mentions 28 bore shotgun in one of his stories

Every now and then there are rumors in India about shotgun or a rifle for a sale that once belonged to Jim Corbett but since most of his guns were auctioned after his death,The claims are highly suspicious.

Dandy

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Fear None, Frighten None

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gatsby
.375 member

Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA

Re: 1910 - 1915 Hunting. Shotguns and rifles [Re: Grenadier]
#160510 - 15/05/10 05:18 PM

After market clip on, or "tiger sights" were available for paradox guns as a aid in tracking beaten game (tigers) or in sighting at twilight or from a blind after dark using the moon as a light source.

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"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar

Edited by CptCurl (15/05/10 10:28 PM)

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ChrisPer
.300 member

Reged: 12/05/08
Posts: 235
Loc: Australia

Re: 1910 - 1915 Hunting. Shotguns and rifles [Re: gatsby]
#160528 - 16/05/10 01:35 AM

A 1910 Mannlicher (9.5x57) would have been just the ticket provided solid projectiles were chosen. The earlier 6.5 and so on could have been in the battery; and just as likely a .303 double, Martini or Lee Enfield Mk 1. However don't forget that the older BPE rifles in bigger calibres would still have been on the rack and still just as effective.

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kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: 1910 - 1915 Hunting. Shotguns and rifles [Re: ChrisPer]
#160531 - 16/05/10 04:26 AM

Simply, try to get a copy of the book: S.R.Truesdell "THE RIFLE it's development for Big-Game Hunting", original 1947 as a NRA library book, reprint 1992 by Safari Press, Inc., ISBN 0-940143-74-7. Truesdell summarizes the rifles mentioned in (English) books by 112 big game hunters from 1834 to 1946.

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VonGruff
.400 member

Reged: 08/02/09
Posts: 1119
Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.

Re: 1910 - 1915 Hunting. Shotguns and rifles [Re: kuduae]
#160574 - 17/05/10 05:54 AM

Thanks for the replys and the diversity of answers shows how many ways to the same goal.
Our discussion has decided they ( The they being a PH setting up a camp) might have had a pair of shotguns for shot and ball possibly Purdy E grade with a main gun being a Rigby 470 with something like a Manton or H&H 577 3 in for for a heavy. Of course there would be a 275 or 318 for camp or bait meat.

Von Gruff.

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Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

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Farhan
.275 member

Reged: 31/01/07
Posts: 52
Loc: Pakistan

Re: 1910 - 1915 Hunting. Shotguns and rifles [Re: DandyofPunjab]
#160576 - 17/05/10 06:41 AM

jim also used 500 no .2 made by RB Rohdha and bought from manthons of cullcata .
This rifle is with me now

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Rockdoc
.400 member

Reged: 07/12/06
Posts: 1213
Loc: NSW, Australia

Re: 1910 - 1915 Hunting. Shotguns and rifles [Re: Farhan]
#160617 - 17/05/10 07:56 PM

Farhan. That is quite a catch.

Can we see some photos please?

Best wishes, Chris

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