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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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CUMMINS
.224 member


Reged: 10/02/10
Posts: 1
Loc: Arkansas,US
Drilling Identification
      #153314 - 11/02/10 01:58 AM

I have a Drilling I would like to know more about. The only marking are Krupp barrels that were nitro proofed. Who is the maker and what time period was it made?

http://s777.photobucket.com/albums/yy51/cummins24ISB/

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baileybradshaw
.333 member


Reged: 21/06/08
Posts: 305
Loc: Diana, TX
Re: Drilling Identification [Re: CUMMINS]
      #153317 - 11/02/10 02:53 AM

I wish I could help, but I am no expert on ID of these. I will say it looks like classic Ferlach work. I will also say it makes me a little weak in the knees. Makes me want to travel to Austria and shoot one of their big ole boars....and a stag.....and maybe a fallow or two....

--------------------
www.bradshawgunandrifle.com

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ellenbr
.300 member


Reged: 25/08/07
Posts: 167
Loc: North Alabama
Re: Drilling Identification [Re: baileybradshaw]
      #153322 - 11/02/10 04:14 AM

It's a Treff action possibly by Imm. Meffert, maybe others. The strikers are coil springs contained in a metal block attached to the upper tang. Pics of the undersides of the tubes or descriptions of the marks/initials likewise may point to a maker along with any proofhouse designation.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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Kiwi_bloke
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Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 256
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Drilling Identification [Re: ellenbr]
      #153366 - 11/02/10 06:00 PM

I have a very similar Drilling made by W. Müchler & Söhne, the proofs suggest in 1911 in Zella Mehlis (ZM on barrel). It's 16/65, 16/65, 9,3x72R (D). There's an "RH" inside the action and also stamped on the fore-end loop on the barrel underside. The information I have referrs to this style of Drilling as a Roux breech after a French gunsmith. Calling it a "Treff" is new to me. In German, "Treff" means a hit when you're shooting something.

There's a very out of focus picture of the top of the receiver of your Drilling Cummins which shows what appears to be a golden crown with 7 pearls. Try looking at Wikipedia under heraldry but these symbols in Germany are quite specific and the number of pearls denotes a particular rank. From memory 7 means a Baron. Just to confuse things, one maker used a gold crown as a trademark, but probably not on your combo rifle.

My Drilling is at the gunsmiths as those coil springs ellebr referred to are a bit of a trick. One was broken and the replacement was a little oversize and would catch on the others when it was sprung. So it's now getting a hand made one to fit.

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ellenbr
.300 member


Reged: 25/08/07
Posts: 167
Loc: North Alabama
Re: Drilling Identification [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
      #153835 - 16/02/10 01:42 AM

Immanuel Meffert hung out his shingle in 1839 and if of typical age of a Master, he would have been 23 or 24 years old; therefore, his birth would have been 23 or 24 years earlier in circa 1816. At first I thought "Treff" to be a person/inventor like the Belgian Roux, like the underlever action, but usually the word "Treff" is in gold and many times is accompanied by D.R.G.M. #71381, which was probably from 1896. Many, many D.R.G.M.s were issued from 1895 to 1897 and they span the range from about 30k to 75k. I haven't seen D.R.G.M. #71381 but am sure that some info exists somewhere, possibly Berlin. I think either Friedrich Justin or Ernst Richard Meffert developed the design, which was way ahead of it's time circa 1896, which was about 5 years prior to Meffert's acquisition of the weapons maker Stahl's widow/daughter's firm. Meffert could have easily sourced the craftsmen at Zella Saint Blasii or Mehlis to perform the intricate work for the Treff action. Meffert itself abandoned the design in the late 1920s.

If the example with the "RH" mark was post WWI, it just may have been made by Richard Hengelhaupt of Zella-Mehlis who was a barrel drawer by the 1930s.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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ellenbr
.300 member


Reged: 25/08/07
Posts: 167
Loc: North Alabama
Re: Drilling Identification [Re: ellenbr]
      #153837 - 16/02/10 01:55 AM



The scattergun tubes have a forge mark of what I think to be for the Klett klan of Suhl, although, it could be for the Kelbers. There's 3 initials on the rifled tube and it looks to be "RFM" and for now I would guess the "M" to be for Mehlis unless Ernst Richard Meffert had another initial of "F" such as Ernst Richard F. Meffert. The "mm" stamp would put it post 1910 and the bullet type and mass will put it post 1911 if from ZM and post 1912 if it passed thru the Suhl proofhouse.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

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Kiwi_bloke
.333 member


Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 256
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Drilling Identification [Re: ellenbr]
      #155074 - 28/02/10 09:28 AM

The photo is a little out of focus. Is that proof mark; 6/5mm over 58 ?

I was looking at a Sauer & Sohn "Tell" rifle (a snap-lock, single barrel, double triggered rifle retailed by Louis Knappworst in Braunschweig). It was proofed in 1930. It was marked 6,4mm over 58,1/2 which turned out to be a 6,5x58R Sauer cartridge. That is to say, when I produced one, it dropped in without any resistence.

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