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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
10.75 x 57
      #153233 - 10/02/10 06:05 AM

A rare caliber..

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=2647291

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Igorrock
.400 member


Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1669
Loc: Finland
Re: 10.75 x 57 [Re: rigbymauser]
      #153235 - 10/02/10 06:53 AM

I think that caliber isn`t so rare in Sweden where I have seen a few of them for sale.

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http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9281
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: 10.75 x 57 [Re: Igorrock]
      #153236 - 10/02/10 07:32 AM

maybe not so rare but also not so common

I have a similar rifle in 10,75x57, my own is only stamped Gecohttp://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=138413&an=0&page=1#Post138413
the price seems rigth when my rifle, allways sold to me, was standing by Wagner&Sohn another dealer was willing to pay 2000 euro because he was looking for this caliber.
we had have this problem with the shotgun style trigger guard before and it was my theory that this rifle's with a Geco stamp were all made from karl bartel/suhl.
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=150524&an=0&page=0#Post150524

see also the trigger guard of of Kaba's rimfire rifle's


--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (10/02/10 07:34 AM)

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Igorrock
.400 member


Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1669
Loc: Finland
Re: 10.75 x 57 [Re: lancaster]
      #153693 - 15/02/10 12:08 AM

This rifle was sold by Widforss Auction, Stockholm, Sweden in November 2006



KULGEVÄR, Tyskt, repeter, fabrikat: G,G & Co, modell GECO?, kal. 10,75x57, tillvnr. 1347, piplängd 63 cm, kolv med kindstöd och pistolgrepp, bakkappan av bakelit, halvoktagonal pipa med helfräst spång, laxat klaffsikte med två siktblad, rembygel på pipan, enklare gravyr på pipan, lådan, underbeslaget och varbygel, kolven spräckt och lagad, märken och repor på kolven i övrigt GOTT SKICK. Utropspris: 1000-2000SEK
Såld för 2900 SEK

And this next one in same place in Mai 2007



KULGEVÄR, Tyskt, repeter, fabrikat: G.G & Co ÒKABAÓ, kal. 10,75x57, tillvnr. 1273, piplängd 62 cm, klaffsikte med ett fast och ett fällbart, halvoktagon pipa med hel spång, träkolven med pistolgrepp och kindstöd, bakelit bakkappa, tryckmärken på kolven, GOTT SKICK.
Såld för 3500 SEK

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27324
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 10.75 x 57 [Re: Igorrock]
      #153705 - 15/02/10 01:27 AM

Lovely!

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5524
Loc: United States
Re: 10.75 x 57 [Re: DarylS]
      #153716 - 15/02/10 03:05 AM

Lovely indeed!

I've seen these from time to time in books only and really, what a practical caliber for thick brush and cover for deer, elk, bear and boar, and if the 10,75 is the groove depth, .44 mag bullets could easily be sized down to work for plinking and such, and some of the stout heavies for the .444 Marlin would work well indeed.

I know much is said about the lack of positive headspacing, but Elmer did fine with his .400 Whelen {with less positive headspacing, I think, due to cartridge taper and the longer case necking down farther from the base}, and I believe with a little attention to snug chambering and this would be a fine caliber.

5 rounds in the mag, too, and with the fine x57 case efficincy, low recoil to-boot.

What does the caliber run, 300 grain bullet at 2200 or so? Maybe 350 at 2100?

I like it!

Bartel...huh. My wife's cousins from Ost Preussen were Bartel's.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27324
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 10.75 x 57 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #153719 - 15/02/10 03:20 AM

There are various heavy .44 moulds available now, up to about 340gr. Cast from WW metal, sized then heat treated, they'd do for any game here and most in Africa as well.
using Lyman's moly lube, I've driven .45 cal bullets to over 2,000fps with perfect accuracy, with straight Cdn. wheelweights - brinel 13 (clamp-on only). I'm sure the .44 would also work.

FL sizing is out of the question, ie: cannot touch the shoulder. Too many people who should know better, have raised red flags on minimal shoulder headspacing being dangerous. Any type of loading is dangerous when a lack of knowledge is introduced.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 40249
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: 10.75 x 57 [Re: DarylS]
      #153722 - 15/02/10 03:30 AM

Anyone got a photo of the cartridge?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9281
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: 10.75 x 57 [Re: NitroX]
      #153742 - 15/02/10 05:34 AM

take a look into the catalog pics http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=138413&an=0&page=1#Post138413
the cartridge is there as Mod.88 11mm

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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kuduae
.400 member


Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1797
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: 10.75 x 57 [Re: lancaster]
      #155735 - 08/03/10 05:06 AM

Hi lancaster, "Kaba" was not Karl Barthel in Suhl, but Karl Bauer & Co! It was a Berlin based company with branches in Breslau, Koenigsberg, Frankfurt a.M. and Suhl. Kaba was not a gunmaker, but more a dealer and wholesaler, as such a competitor to Geco! Obviously both companies had their guns made by the Suhl/Zella-Mehlis guntrade, the Z-M people making most of the small-bore and target rifles.
There was another Carl Bauer in Zella-Mehlis, specializing in "Vogelbuechsen" = big bore target riles, active until WW2.
I can not find a "Karl Barthel, Suhl" in my references, only several "Karl Barthelmes".
Adding shotgun-style triggerguards and flat bolthandles was deemed essential by all Suhl/Z-M trained gunsmiths for "improving" the looks of Mauser-actioned sporting rifles well until the 1970s. So any of the many gunmakers in the Suhl-Zella-Mehlis area, more than 100 in Z-M alone, may have put those rifles together for both Geco and Kaba.
To illustrate the German fashion for flat bolthandles and shotgun triggerguards, here is a post-war 8x57IS rifle by a country gunmaker I knew personally: It was put together by old Alfred Meyer in Wolfenbuettel and proofed May 1957




--------------------
German foresters: We like sustainability! For merely 300 years by 2013.

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lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9281
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: 10.75 x 57 [Re: kuduae]
      #155740 - 08/03/10 06:23 AM

I am trying to learn something new or better every day. make a quick internet research and found this:http://proofhouse.com/cm/codes_markings.htm "KABA, KABA SPEZIAL Tradenames of Karl Bauer, a Berlin, Germany dealer. Handguns made by Menz, August and Arizmendi, Francisco bear this name."

must say that I remember karl barthel for kaba from a read some years ago about 16 ga shotguns make from WW 1 surplus mauser rifles from the backyard of my brain. and now when you say this , yes,it was barthelmes. what we know is that there is special typ of hunting rifle with a shotgun style triggerguard. the stock for this rifle's was coming from the same hand's. I have showing such example's in 9,3x57 and 10,75x57 here.follow the swedish website one rifle was marked also kaba beside of the geco stamp. also to note that kaba and geco had have rimfire rifle's with such a shotgun style triggerguard.
I am being with you about the very complicated situation in suhl/ zella-mellis.


this description here was going so close to my own words that I believe now this guy was making also a short internet research to look what he was having and read my post on nitro express before the rifle was going to egun:
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=2647291
"Sehr seltene Mauser 98 im Kal. 10,75x57 der Fa. Karl Barthel. Die Firma Karl Barthel hat für Geco bis zum zweiten Weltkrieg in Suhl diese Waffen hergestellt. Viele dieser Gewehre waren für den Export gebaut worden. Das Gewehr ist in einen guten Gebrauchszustand. Alle Metallteile sind in einem guten bis sehr guten Zustand, Der Schaft weißt stärkere Gebrauchsspuren auf.

Aufgrund der vielen Nachfragen nochmal, es handelt sich wirklich um das Kaliber 10,75x57 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I have seen till now pics from 3 rifle's in 10,75 x57, including my own and all were of the same model.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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88MauSporter
.375 member


Reged: 06/06/07
Posts: 530
Loc: Alaska / Texas
Re: 10.75 x 57 [Re: lancaster]
      #155776 - 08/03/10 04:18 PM

I have only seen one 10.75 x57, and that on an 1888 Comm. Action sporter. Full length stock, semi-octagon barrel, lots of horn embellishment. HUGE price compared to most '88 sporters. It sold though.
But not to me. I would love to own one in this caliber. It was not spoken well of by Taylor, but he wrote poorly about almost all German calibers and rifles. I have read they were fairly popular with German influenced colonies and countries in Pre-WWII Africa.

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"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter

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