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Grenadier
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Buffalo hunt - Recommendations. I don't want a PH who acts like my valet
      #152312 - 31/01/10 09:50 AM

I don't want to travel to Africa and hire a PH who acts like my valet. Is there some way to do it that allows me to be a hunter and not just a trigger puller? Or has what I outlined below become the modern version of the African experience?

I have wanted to hunt in Africa ever since I worked there many years ago. As time went by, I read the great classic African books and it just added fuel to my burning desire. For a long time, I was exploring the possibility of going back to hunt cape buffalo. But the more I learned about the hunts the more put off I became on the whole concept.

I have a mental image of the hunt starting off with me walking behind some PH, who really doesn't know me and who doesn't give a damn. Then we come to a herd, that he already knew was there, and he motions to me with excitement to move up to him. He points out a "nice one" and says, "See him? He's the one. Now stand right there and don't move." Then he hands me the rifle that his helper has been carrying for me. He moves behind me so he can look over my shoulder. "That's the one. Yes. Yes. Now shoot." I shoot, and maybe shoot again when prodded, and then we are all smiles and begin our stroll to the animal. A variation of the scenario has the PH fire his big double in immediate echo to my shot, regardless of what the animal does. Perhaps it is all over for the buffalo, or perhaps I/we have to deliver a coup(s). The PH then takes my gun and hands it to his helper. He assures me that I am a great hunter and off we go leaving everything to be completed by those left behind.

Do you know of an outfitter that can give me a better experience?
Your comments, advice, and criticism are invited.


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gryphon
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Re: Buffalo hunt - Recommendations. I don't want a PH who a [Re: Grenadier]
      #152334 - 31/01/10 03:06 PM

No criticism of your post from me Sir,none what so ever.

And I can really read into your post as you wanting to hunt for the hunting and not just delivering a bullet into an animal for so called brownie points online or in some mag or a club somewhere around the world.

I hunt and thats how I want to do it too if I ever made it to the "big time"

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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eagle27
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Re: Buffalo hunt - Recommendations. I don't want a PH who a [Re: gryphon]
      #152357 - 31/01/10 07:35 PM

Hmm, Grenadier we must be physic.

I’ve been having the same thoughts lately too as I look to getting to Africa sometime in the next couple of years. Looking at some of the videos around, but not in anyway passing criticism on those enjoying their type of hunt, I just find some of it is not my scene.

I don’t need to be waitered on for drinks on arrival at camp or have my rifle packed and unpacked and handed to me on alighting from a vehicle and then cleaned at the end of the day. I don’t need a crowd around the animal when down, with hugs and back slaps. I don’t need the PH to point out the 1st the 2nd the ……. however many bullet entries.

All my hunting life, these are the things which I’ve been quite capable of doing and all part of the hunt for me personally. I suppose as the saying goes “when in Rome do as the Romans do” might well apply when in Africa and I guess there are those employed to do these sorts of things for the paying hunters.

Although I would dearly love to realise my lifetime dream of getting to Africa, I’m just not so sure that the Africa of today is what I have dreamed of.

More and more my thoughts are turning towards a return trip to the top end of Australia for another bit of good old Aussie hospitality and the sort of hunting I know. Maybe that’s changed too?


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Paul
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Re: Buffalo hunt - Recommendations. I don't want a PH who a [Re: eagle27]
      #152373 - 31/01/10 11:54 PM

I've only been to Africa once but have gained some kind of insight, I think.

There may be a shoestring outfit somewhere that would do what you want - but be careful. I was in touch with one that was supposedly engaged in problem-lion management and would let me hunt with them from their fly-tent operation for a reasonable price. Trouble was, even had I got a lion, it seems they had no right to export the trophy. The same people had a block near us in Mozambique and offered cut-price hunts there, too. While I got four animals on my safari by fair-chase methods, I know that one hunter who went with this other lot got nothing.

The whole thing in Africa is so bound up with the economics of game management that there doesn't seem the same opportunities for harvesting the bounty of nature the way we do in Australia, NZ or America. If a South African wants to hunt big game he has to pay up, too.

The safari thing is dude camping, all right, but that is the tradition and it keeps the families of many locals from the depths of poverty, I believe. The Indian-file method of tracking game seems a bit ridiculous but it works.

I went with Jason van Aarde of Tomkinsons and he is a good, straight operator. His tracker Estevao Banassi could follow critters over bare rocks and through dried leaves on hard ground. We followed buffalo for four days, eight hours a day before we caught up with some good ones, so it's not always easy. I think the client usually carries his own rifle, though someone may carry another one if needed.

How PHs deals with wounded DG varies but they probably have a legal duty to safeguard the client. Jason couldn't even send his apprentice with his rifle to get our car one evening unless I lent him my 'big' rifle so he could protect me against DG. I am not against the Mark Sullivan outlook of giving buffalo a sporting chance but it helps to have a PH with nerves of steel, a .600NE and no particular worry about seeing his wife and children again. Celebrity PHs probably charge more, though.

Yes, you'll probably have to let someone else do the skinning but that is the system and these guys should have more experience, anyway.

Looking back I think the experience I had was probably about as good as it gets over there, unless you can hunt elephant and big cats, which I could not.

Cheers
- Paul


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shakari
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Re: Buffalo hunt - Recommendations. I don't want a PH who a [Re: Paul]
      #152381 - 01/02/10 01:32 AM

As Paul pretty much says, there are all kinds of hunting operations and PHs out there and the trick is to find one that suits your own particular needs, tastes and finances.

To do that, you need to do research on the net BUT you also need to speak not only to hunters but also people in the industry who know good from bad etc.

In Paul's case as he's a tough Aussie he chose a hunt that was an immense adventure but make no mistake about it, it was also not an experience for cissies..... and some hunters from elsewhere in the world just wouldn't have wanted to choose the experience he wanted.

Feel free to contact me if you need advice.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



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xausa
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Re: Buffalo hunt - Recommendations. I don't want a PH who acts like my valet [Re: Grenadier]
      #152385 - 01/02/10 02:24 AM

I guess my attitude toward the kind of experience you describe as wanting to avoid was that I had to prove myself to my PH before he was willing to step aside and let me sink or swim on my own.

I met my PH at the Game Coin convention in San Antonio in 1971, about six months before my booked hunting trip. He came and visited me in my home in Nashville and had a chance to look over my collection of guns and get an idea of what he could expect from me in the hunting field. Just by way of contrast, he also spent some time with a former client who lived about a mile away from me, also a lawyer, who had missed out on superior leopard and kudu trophies BECAUSE HE COULDN'T FIND THEM IN THE SCOPE.

At the time, my big game hunting experience was confined entirely to white tail deer, although I had been shooting varmints (ground hogs and crows) for years, at ranges up to 300 yards.

When I arrived in Kenya and we were driving out to our first camp site, my PH casually mentioned that we would need some camp meat. Later, he stopped the car, pointed to an animal on the right side of the car which I recognised as a kongoni (hartebeest) and said, "Why don't you bag him for supper?"

I got out on the left side of the car (of course), and at the same time my gun bearer, whom I had just met, and who could not speak a word of English, also got out, handed me my Model 70 300 H&H and brought along the shooting sticks, which I was totally unfamiliar with. We crouched down and left the car in single file with him in front until we reached what he considered an appropriate place (he may have been told how far away to let me shoot from) and set up the shooting sticks. Acting from instinct, I rested the rifle on the sticks, took careful aim and shot. The kongoni went down, and I stepped off the distance: 260 paces. Up until then, I ahd resolved not to attempt a shot further than 200 yards, but this experience raised my limit to 300 yards.

A few days later, I shot my first elephant. This time my PH was right next to me and immediately after I fired my first shot and the elephant went down, he fired, too. I was incensed and told him so. He pointed out that the sisal field which the elephants were raiding was only about 100 yards from the boundary of a National Park, and if I had wounded the elephant and it had gotten up and run off, there would have been no way to recover it. He never shot at one of my animals again, except for an oryx, which had moved a step just as I squeezed off my shot, and consequently was gut shot and threatened to get away. A lot of the time when we were stalking animals, he didn't even carry his rifle, although it was instantly available. I always carried my own rifle, and the gunbearer carried a backup rifle, ususally my .300 H&H, in case we encountered a plains game trophy worth shooting at.

To me, the value of the PH was in estimating trophy size. Having never been in Africa before, it was impossible for me to differentiate between a good set of horns and a mediocre one. When we waded into a herd of buffalo, I could not have identified a bull from a cow or a good head from a poor one in the short time I had before they spooked. He told me where to shoot, and I shot. There were about 35-50 head of buffalo in that herd, and maybe I should have been able to spot the biggest ones, but I couldn't. Following his directions, I was able to get three big ones, each one better than the one before.

We spent weeks locating my second elephant. Time after time we would walk up on a group of elephants dozing in the noontime shade, glass the ivory, and then disappointedly steal away. At one point, I was told to shoot, had the rifle in my shoulder and was about to fire, when my PH touched my arm and told me to hold my fire. He told me that the ivory was no bigger than what I already had.

I was furious and being pulled back and forth like that. It's like coitus interruptus in the game field. Afterwards, when I had my really big elephant, I was glad he had intervened.

As far as gun bearers are concerned, most of the time the stalks on plains game were conducted by him and me. By this time I had learned enough Swahili to be able to communicate the important information, like "Which one is the bull?" Having just the two of us along made the stalk much easier. Fortunately, there was hardly ever a need to follow up wounded game.

One experience characterizes my relationship to Kaoli, my gunbearer, better than anything else. We were following a rhino down hill. The tracker had lost the trail and he and the two gunbearers and the PH were spread out in front of me, looking for sign. Suddenly, on my right, the PH snapped his fingers to attract our attention. Almost instantly, I heard a snort like a steam locomotive releasing steam directly BEHIND us. As I turned, there was the rhino going full tilt toward the PH. He had circled around behind us and was charging down hill.

I threw up my .505, aimed at the shoulder, and fired. The rhino swapped ends and started back the way he had come, more quickly that I would have thought possible. I snapped off three more shots into his shoulder area, then took the rifle down to reload. As I reached into my pocket for more cartridges, suddenly a black arm with a handful of cartridges snaked around my waist. Kaoli, who was a good fifty feet away from me when the shooting started, had raced toward me to be there when I needed him. I was overwhelmed that (1) he had placed his duty to me above his own personal safety, and (2) he had enough confidence in my shooting to do so.

Kaoli, and the other gunbearer and the tracker, Kehri Bai and Sabuni, were a taciturn bunch. There was no back slapping or thumb pulling, no matter what the occasion. At most, there was an appreciative grin, but I treasured that as much or more than all the hystrionics that Hemingway and Ruark seemed to set so much store in. See http://www.frappr.com/?a=viewphoto&id=3823381&pid=6978040&myphotos=1 That's Kaoli, second from the right, next to him Kheri Bai, and in front, Sabuni.

Things proceeded to the point with my PH that when I shot my lion and my leopard he did not even get out of the hunting car. I appreciated his confidence in my ability and his trust in me to protect Kaoli, who would have been in as much jeopardy as I, if I had failed to perform.

You have to understand that my first experience was a five week safari, and there was plenty of time for my PH to size me up and I him. This kind of experience is virtually unknown today, and a PH has to err on the side of caution, not only for his own safety, but for the client's safety and that of his staff.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Buffalo hunt - Recommendations. I don't want a PH who acts like my valet [Re: Grenadier]
      #152386 - 01/02/10 02:57 AM

Quote:

I don't want to travel to Africa and hire a PH who acts like my valet. Is there some way to do it that allows me to be a hunter and not just a trigger puller? Or has what I outlined below become the modern version of the African experience?

I have wanted to hunt in Africa ever since I worked there many years ago. As time went by, I read the great classic African books and it just added fuel to my burning desire. For a long time, I was exploring the possibility of going back to hunt cape buffalo. But the more I learned about the hunts the more put off I became on the whole concept.

I have a mental image of the hunt starting off with me walking behind some PH, who really doesn't know me and who doesn't give a damn. Then we come to a herd, that he already knew was there,

Could be the case but a lot of finding game is done by driving the tracks and checking waterholes looking for tracks. Then if fresh enough and the right type you track them up until it is decided it is no good or the animals are spotted and no good or good enough for a shot.

As for doing it yourself, usually the trackers are so good they will do it well before you can.

But remember the old guys in the old stories all hired trackers too.




and he motions to me with excitement to move up to him. He points out a "nice one" and says, "See him? He's the one.

Same with spotting the game. Unless they are all busy looking down, then often the client sees the game first.

Evaluation of the trophy? Tell the PH what you want and they will if they are good advise you if they disagree and/or do what you want. Some will still push you to shoot something you are not as interested in. In the end it is the clients decision to shoot or not and how knowledgeable or not they are.


Now stand right there and don't move." Then he hands me the rifle that his helper has been carrying for me.


Usually the client will carry their own rifle unless they have two, or they are getting tired and the PH notices.

He moves behind me so he can look over my shoulder. "That's the one. Yes. Yes. Now shoot." I shoot, and maybe shoot again when prodded, and then we are all smiles and begin our stroll to the animal. A variation of the scenario has the PH fire his big double in immediate echo to my shot, regardless of what the animal does.

The PH shooting the same time is something you want to make clear before hand. Sometimes it is warranted. For example, near a border of the concession or near a Park. Where a follow up will be difficult. Also if you heart shoot an elephant. As the elephant will run off, many PHs like to make sure by shooting immediately afterwards. Also for brain shots on elephant. If it doesn't immediately drop then they might say, follow up with a chest shot immediately and I might/will shoot as well. Up to the client to make sure of their shot.

BUT some PHs will insist on shooting as well immediately. I have seen it on videos and even discussed on videos. If you don't like that and most of us don't, then make that clear, preferably BEFORE even booking the hunt. Its your hunt, not theirs.



Perhaps it is all over for the buffalo, or perhaps I/we have to deliver a coup(s). The PH then takes my gun and hands it to his helper. He assures me that I am a great hunter and off we go leaving everything to be completed by those left behind.

Usually really up to the client to just stand around while the work is done, or join in. Sometimes the staff find it disconcerting if one helps as they regard it as their job and what they get paid to do. With the larger beasts such as buffalo and eland, often the client has to help load it up. If a track needs to be blazed a couple of kilometres through the bush to get the Landcruiser in, there's lots of work to do. It is very rare to just leave the animal and go off leaving them to do the work. For one what vehicle will transport the animal out?

If you want to do the skinning or caping then do it. But good outfitters have good teams whom know their job and are efficient at it. Skinning an elephant takes about two hours. Chopping it up by 60 local villagers about an hour. There is NO WAY I would be putting my hands in among the flying pangas and axes.

I think your impressions are a bit negative. A client can get involved or not usually. However some PHs are arrogant. I had one tell me I didn't need a knife. Probably didn't. "Didn't need binoculars as he would do all that. All I really needed was my rifle." That I found rude and arrogant. I was there to hunt, not just follow along and certainly made good use of my binoculars a lot.

Often the staff will carry your stuff for you, cameras etc. Sometimes this is good, as it is not in the way when the stalking starts and they hang back. Sometimes they carry the water and everyone shares the same water bottles. I carry my own water and would take a camelback on future safaris. I don't want to share the locals bacteria and microbes either.

Suss out outfitters which fit what you want. You may not get what you want but that's life. A lot of outfitters/PHs will be guided by their impressions of the client. If they appear hopeless or not into it will take complete charge. If the client is a smart go getter, experienced, jumps in etc, you will find they lay off a bit.

Hunting tactics is one area where often a client is left out. If you don't speak the local African languages you don't know what is being said and are in the dark. But if inclined ask what is going on, what is being said, and ask to discuss the tactics etc. But we can all learn from each other. One PH refused to tell me what was being planned. He said it was going to be a surprise. We had been trying to get onto a herd of buffalo but the thorn jess was too thick. He sent a tracker back to the cruiser and said it would be a surprise. The tracker returned with two umbrellas and we proceeded to close onto the buffalo completely in the open, pretending to be buffalo. And it worked. However it couldn't get close enough for a shot as some cows in between prevented us and the PH asked me how I felt about a 160 metre shot on the trophy bull, which I declined.








--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (01/02/10 02:15 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Buffalo hunt - Recommendations. I don't want a PH who acts like my valet [Re: xausa]
      #152390 - 01/02/10 03:19 AM

Quote:

When I arrived in Kenya and we were driving out to our first camp site, my PH casually mentioned that we would need some camp meat. Later, he stopped the car, pointed to an animal on the right side of the car which I recognised as a kongoni (hartebeest) and said, "Why don't you bag him for supper?"




No doubt a test to see if you could shoot.

One always seems to go for some lesser beast before the big ones.

Same with the shooting range to "test" the rifles. One PH was impressed however when I put the second .450 bullet through the same hole as the first. The trackers said I had missed but the back of the target slowed a slight figure 8 so the PH informed them it was also the second shot and he was right. Of course it was my incredible skill not pure lucky arse to do that!

Quote:

A few days later, I shot my first elephant. This time my PH was right next to me and immediately after I fired my first shot and the elephant went down, he fired, too. I was incensed and told him so. He pointed out that the sisal field which the elephants were raiding was only about 100 yards from the boundary of a National Park, and if I had wounded the elephant and it had gotten up and run off, there would have been no way to recover it.




Ha ha, didn't read this post before my earlier post. One of the times when a PH will also shoot without being asked.



Quote:

To me, the value of the PH was in estimating trophy size. Having never been in Africa before, it was impossible for me to differentiate between a good set of horns and a mediocre one.




True. I couldn't tell a male hartebeest from a female one, and definitely needed someone to tell me, especially if a quick shot was required. Didn't get one that trip.



Quote:

At one point, I was told to shoot, had the rifle in my shoulder and was about to fire, when my PH touched my arm and told me to hold my fire. He told me that the ivory was no bigger than what I already had.

I was furious and being pulled back and forth like that. It's like coitus interruptus in the game field. Afterwards, when I had my really big elephant, I was glad he had intervened.




Local knowledge of the game and what might be available.

Quote:

Kaoli, who was a good fifty feet away from me when the shooting started, had raced toward me to be there when I needed him. I was overwhelmed that (1) he had placed his duty to me above his own personal safety, and (2) he had enough confidence in my shooting to do so.




None of the staff I have encountered have ever run off. Even when the whites of their eyes are showing. They are usually unarmed after all.

Quote:

Kaoli, and the other gunbearer and the tracker, Kehri Bai and Sabuni, were a taciturn bunch. There was no back slapping or thumb pulling, no matter what the occasion. At most, there was an appreciative grin, but I treasured that as much or more than all the hystrionics that Hemingway and Ruark seemed to set so much store in. See http://www.frappr.com/?a=viewphoto&id=3823381&pid=6978040&myphotos=1 That's Kaoli, second from the right, next to him Kheri Bai, and in front, Sabuni.




I will load that photo onto the NE server.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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shakari
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Re: Buffalo hunt - Recommendations. I don't want a PH who acts like my valet [Re: NitroX]
      #152396 - 01/02/10 03:40 AM

John has given top notch answers but I'll add that when at the range to check out the zero etc, a good PH will be watching the client to see how he handles the rifle rather than the target to see where the bullet goes.

you learn an awful lot about how the client will handle himself and how well he'll shoot by watching him at those moments.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



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poprivit
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Re: Buffalo hunt - Recommendations. I don't want a PH who a [Re: shakari]
      #152400 - 01/02/10 04:12 AM

Me- four African safaris - 275 lb, bad knees. Elephant, 3 Cape Buf, lots of other stuff.

Johan Calitz Safaris - First trip in 1995 the shower was a 5-gallon bucket that had to be hand-filled. In a tent. First day shot a Lechwe long before my shadow got there from home. Hadn't even sighted in the rifle that I, not the tracker, carried on every step of every hunt. Once everyone got to know each other the PHs never lifted their rifles to their shoulders except on the elephant.

My arsenal on the four hunts included Winchester .300 Mag; Remington .416; Searcy .577; Ruger 458 Lott (in my estimation the best big game cartridge); Ruger #1 in .458 Lott. Next hunt in 211 will be with a .375 Ruger #1 - I'll be 65 and slowin' down.

I knew what I was doing, got to know Johan and didn't play the fool. Damn but the knees hurt.

He ain't cheap, but for the money, the adventure was excellent. Botswana on 2,000 sq. km of concession - zero fences.

It's all in who you hunt with and how you hunt.

Tom Murphy
I'm more than happy to talk to you and play show and tell with photos.


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Ripp
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Re: Buffalo hunt - Recommendations. I don't want a PH who a [Re: poprivit]
      #152409 - 01/02/10 06:05 AM

Quote:


It's all in who you hunt with and how you hunt.

Tom Murphy






Exactly...

I have NEVER had my gun carried for me, been waited on nor had a PH shoot 'any' animal for me...and once the trigger is pulled I help load, gut, whatever the animal until the job is done. That is how I chose to do it--for some, that is not their cup of tea and only want to do as you described..

As suggested, the PH will watch you, especially if you are new to them, for the first few days..BUT, if you prove not to be the preverbal "fool" ..you can hunt as you desire...no one will hold your hand...

You do have to remember however there are plenty that want or NEED their hand held, and IMHO, have no business being there..but each to his own...they can't shoot, have not practiced, are in really poor physical condition and drink a 1/5 of booze every night...again, each to his own, but that is not how I chose to live ...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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eagle27
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Re: Buffalo hunt - Recommendations. I don't want a PH who a [Re: Ripp]
      #152414 - 01/02/10 07:39 AM

Hey guys, some good responses there and you’ve restored my faith a bit. I certainly don’t want to knock anyone’s safari style and maybe the videos we see now are most likely to be of the sort of hunt that doesn’t hold much appeal for me but there are others out there that do offer a bit more roughing style safari.

When I spent my year in Germany doing quite a bit of hunting, naturally I did what the Germans did and it all seemed quite quaint with the traditions and the like. I had been so used to getting straight in and gutting the animal after the shot, getting it into a pack or across my shoulders and then carry it back to camp or to the vehicle. Hang it up in a tree, slice off some steak and have a good old hunters meal, or back home and into the freezer.
No niceties of giving it its last meal (tree twig in mouth), not standing over it while gutting, playing a bit of music on a hunting horn, etc, etc. As I said very quaint and old traditions in Europe and not something we rough down under types are used to.

I would of course respect the conditions in Africa too and do realise that for the trackers, skinners, etc it is their employment and you need to be careful that you don’t offend and come across as arrogant as well. I suppose it will be a case of sussing out other hunters experience and making an informed choice from that.


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Grenadier
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Re: Buffalo hunt - Recommendations. I don't want a PH who a [Re: eagle27]
      #152499 - 02/02/10 02:42 AM

My previous African experience included some months spent in the eastern part working with their military in remote areas about twenty-five years ago. We lived in tents and we traveled about on foot every day. I interacted with the locals in small towns, villages, and family groups of dung covered huts. Giraffes, zebras, antelope, monkeys, and all kinds of other animals were just about everywhere. I heard lions and hyenas nearly every night. I've always wanted to go back and go hunting. I guess it has changed.

xausa - Great story and photo!

Everyone - Thanks for all the insight and suggestions.

--------------------
~


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JabaliHunter
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Re: Buffalo hunt - Recommendations. I don't want a PH who a [Re: Paul]
      #152807 - 04/02/10 08:25 AM

Quote:

I was in touch with one that was supposedly engaged in problem-lion management and would let me hunt with them from their fly-tent operation for a reasonable price. Trouble was, even had I got a lion, it seems they had no right to export the trophy.



I don't know where this was or any details, but Problem Animal Control (PAC) licenses are usually cheaper because the trophy is not exportable. PAC hunts are still good hunts, assuming a good PH/outfitter. Could it have been a PAC license?


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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: Buffalo hunt - Recommendations. I don't want a PH who a [Re: Grenadier]
      #152808 - 04/02/10 09:05 AM

Quote:

I heard lions and hyenas nearly every night. I've always wanted to go back and go hunting. I guess it has changed.






With careful planning and enough cash you maybe pleasantly surprised.

Edit: Ex BATT are we ? We may have met at the Randell's. Just about every Rupert cycled through there.

Edited by tophet1 (04/02/10 09:36 AM)


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shakari
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Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: Buffalo hunt - Recommendations. I don't want a PH who a [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #152856 - 05/02/10 12:29 AM

Quote:

I was in touch with one that was supposedly engaged in problem-lion management and would let me hunt with them from their fly-tent operation for a reasonable price. Trouble was, even had I got a lion, it seems they had no right to export the trophy.




PAC is a much abused term at the best of times and some companies take it to extremes. A few of these companies need to be avoided like the plague.

PAC also means different things in different countries and in one country at least, you can export a PAC animal IF they have a CITES tag available BUT you can only shoot the animal the game dept designate as a particular PAC animal.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



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Paul
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Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: Buffalo hunt - Recommendations. I don't want a PH who a [Re: tophet1]
      #152857 - 05/02/10 12:39 AM

Jabali, the problem lions were supposed to be in coastal Mozambique and I was game to have a go until my NE mentor, Steve Robinson, acquainted me with the moral questions involved in lion hunting (such as the danger to the cubs when the alpha male is shot). Anyway I had trouble getting any references out of the PH and my inquiries on this forum only produced a pejorative one.

Apart from anything else it seems the PAC bloke is a bit of a muddler. Hunters have arrived in Pemba only to have their rifles confiscated because he hadn't fixed up the licences.

Grenadier, it may be that there are reasonably priced hunts in hard country available, though. Unrelated to this thread, Steve just sent me details of his new safaris into Uganda. The day rates are fair average but the trophy fees are about half what I paid. Being an Aussie that appeals to me because, apart from the price aspect, we tend to fear that if the trophy fees are high enough we might find the critters tied up to a tree. I haven't hunted with Steve but I know from his emails he is generous with his time and from his website that he pays attention to detail. I doubt that he'd leave you in the lurch with the paperwork.

And no, Steve, I'm not particularly tough. Some of those long walks were plenty for an old bugger like me. As you said, the trouble with buffalo is their legs are too long.

- Paul

Edited by Paul (05/02/10 12:43 AM)


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shakari
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Reged: 09/02/03
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Re: Buffalo hunt - Recommendations. I don't want a PH who a [Re: Paul]
      #152860 - 05/02/10 01:21 AM

Mate,

Take it from me, my intelligence network tells me you're a lot tougher than the average!

As to the length of Buff legs..... I'd even settle for the bastards having shorter legs on just one side..... at least then, they'd walk in circles!!!!!

If anyone wants help/advice/info just send me an email.

I've also been trying to send something to John but it keeps being returned. So John, if you read this, can you please let me have another email address if you have one please? :g

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Edited by shakari (05/02/10 01:24 AM)


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Paul
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Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: Buffalo hunt - Recommendations. I don't want a PH who a [Re: shakari]
      #152920 - 05/02/10 05:34 PM

Steve,
all the buffalo we followed did walk in circles, hence my suggestion that lazy hunteres could man a hide near the start while the others tracked the beasts.

Of course we would leave the truck where we found the tracks; on one occasion the buff took us on a seven-hour trek and dropped as back at the vehicle about 5pm.

- Paul


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shakari
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Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: Buffalo hunt - Recommendations. I don't want a PH who a [Re: Paul]
      #152937 - 06/02/10 12:32 AM

I guess it's all part of hunting but ain't it a bugger when these things happen.

I was hunting in the Selous a few years ago and we spent an entire day tracking two elephant bulls up and down mountains and after a whole day of doing that the bastards walked right past where we'd parked the hunting trucks.

We never did get 'em but the driver managed to get some great pics of 'em as they walked past him.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Edited by shakari (06/02/10 12:34 AM)


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Paul
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Reged: 28/08/07
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Re: Buffalo hunt - Recommendations. I don't want a PH who a [Re: shakari]
      #152999 - 06/02/10 07:10 PM

Wherein we see another aspect of the cost of safaris: you can't even leave the truck unattended when out hunting, in case someone breaks into it. Our truck minder didn't have a camera to fiddle with or even a book to read. The truck was locked of course, so he couldn't listen to the radio. I guess he just contented himself with having a better job than a wheel-tapper's listener.

Edited by Paul (06/02/10 07:37 PM)


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