DarylS
.700 member
Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27490
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
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So glad you bought the gun, Jens (& taht I found this thread).
Oval bores - wonderful. That is exciting.
What a lovely rifle!
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Daryl
"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V
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rigbymauser
.400 member
Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 2021
Loc: Denmark
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Thanks Daryl.
Well I can say many thanks to all really, especially from the thread made by Jaz and his 2 guns from Tolley. Lots of good info in that thread, one can not read himself to find, but stricly street wisdom from forum-members , gained over the many years handling many many guns.
That thread was a led of for me to have my gun "investigated" closely.
It was my little plan after my architech studies to give myself a paradoxgun, but now I don`t have wait 5 years 
J
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rigbymauser
.400 member
Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 2021
Loc: Denmark
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Okay Facts on the table.
I have here today inquestioned my gun regarding this "lancater rifling".
Here are the numbers: The oval part goes approx 60mm or 2,36" down the barrel. The narrow side measures 18,35mm or .722" the wide side measures 18,66mm or .734".
The gunsmith says it is very clear that there is a spiral or a twist. The rest of the barrel is cylindrical.
I`LL mail him a paradoxbullet here later this week, so we can see how it will "fill the barrel" .
Have this type of Lancaster muzzled ever been recorded before?..Are we re-dicover something new we can add to the gunwisdom?
More to follow:
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DarylS
.700 member
Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27490
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
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Ahh, I see- i thoght the bore was oval rifed full length, but the light weight didn't fit a 12 bore rifle (nor did the good shooting with shot).
Looking breech to muzzles and visa versa the choke should be visible to the eye at .006" depth per side, even though it is not very pronounced, compared to chokes on other paradox guns.
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Daryl
"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V
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rigbymauser
.400 member
Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 2021
Loc: Denmark
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Yesterday I recieved the ballgun back from the gunmakers. The firingpins both have new returnsprings installed. However, I have here today polished the barrels to a mirrorfinish, and it is very clear that the muzzles are oval aprox. 2.5" down from the muzzle. The ovalness are actually seen best from the chamber-end(breech). It plays a trick to the eye, but knowing what to look for, its clear these barrel have an oval muzzle. Further more I have one paradox bullet which fits perfect in the barrels.With a slight pressure of maybe 5-6Ibs, the ball can be pushed to about 2.5" before exiting the muzzle. The last 2.5" I can not push any further without a hammerforce( which I haven`t done ofcouse).
I have ordered just 1 box of paradox ammunition at H&H. They have charged me £62, where Lewis & Drakes, Kentucky takes only $35 in the US..(Oh well,take it or leave it:LOL). I friend of mine takes them home to me here this summer, so I can try out factory ammunition, before investing in complete set-up for do-it-your-self paradox ammo kit.
My paradox bullet measure .7345".
The barrels are prooved after 1904( it has the scimitar), and nowhere can I find anything that indicate the this gun can shoot paradox ammo. The barrels are definatly heavier than normal shotgunbarrels + it states "for ball".
I wonder if were normal to make an oval rifle muzzle if the gun were designed to shoot roundballs only?
Edited by rigbymauser (28/04/11 03:23 AM)
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rigbymauser
.400 member
Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 2021
Loc: Denmark
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Here yesterday, I fired a H&H factoryload paradox ammunition in the Rigby. Firing at a plate at 40 yards the ball tilted or keyholed. Oh well I thought, now I have tried it. I took a shell to cut open, to see how well the ball fitted the barrels, and there is no question the barrels are oval. Only two sides of the ball are in contact with the barrelwalls all the way down just before the muzzle where the barrel becomes a funnel or choke. It takes a gentle push of pressure to push the balls down the barrels. In my right barrel it can almost slide down by its own weight. I have grown wiser now without knowing why:LOL.
Some questions arises here:
1) The gun weighs 8,5Ibs, which dictate a heavy load ballgun.
2) It has a 100yard leaf, but which which type of ammunition can hit anything accurately beside
a bullet/ball the is stabilized with a twist?.
3) IF the gun was made to shoot pure roundballs, wouldn`t the barrel have been cylindrical bored?.
Edited by rigbymauser (26/06/11 06:37 PM)
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mickey
.416 member
Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
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From what little I know the oval bores all shot bullets or conical projectiles. Even Lancaster's cannon projectiles shot sabots.
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Lovu Zdar
Mick
A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.
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rigbymauser
.400 member
Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 2021
Loc: Denmark
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Smooth barrel?..Yes.
..and again, 3 indentsments are roll die unto the barrel. They go all the way out and they have a twist of something like 1:70 + they sqeezes tighter towards the muzzle.
Here a .743" roundball are situated aprox 2" in the right barrel after the chamber.
Invisible rifling is "invisible for sure. It took me a long time to realize this.
A 735" paradox bullet just barely touches the barrelwalls and the "rifling" has no way to steer it.I have shot a new H&H paradox ammo in it and they just fly sideways.
I have concluded a larger paradox bullet of something like .745" is needed for this gun.
Edited by CptCurl (03/06/13 08:36 PM)
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DarylS
.700 member
Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27490
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
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I would use a .750" round ball, or cloth patched .735", personally.
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Daryl
"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V
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rigbymauser
.400 member
Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 2021
Loc: Denmark
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Quote:
I would use a .750" round ball, or cloth patched .735", personally.
..the dia at the muzzle is .735". Would you say it would ok (safe) use .750" roundball is soft lead?.
I had thought of experimenting with roundball up to .745".
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rigbymauser
.400 member
Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 2021
Loc: Denmark
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I found this catalog from 1901 as the only source regarding Rigby and their Ball & Shot gun program.
I have ordered a bullet from NEI in .740-742" which should be able to engage the rifling at once leaving the hull.
Edited by rigbymauser (30/07/13 08:48 PM)
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Mike_Johnson
.300 member
Reged: 17/10/09
Posts: 104
Loc: York, Pa
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Stunning rifle. Congrats. I just committed to a Chas Lancaster 12 Bore Rifle. Yours is very nice
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TH44
.375 member
Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 740
Loc: West UK
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Mike - Pics will be expected - pleezz!
TH44
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CommandCar
.333 member
Reged: 18/09/10
Posts: 292
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Quote:
..and again, 3 indentsments are roll die unto the barrel. They go all the way out and they have a twist of something like 1:70 + they sqeezes tighter towards the muzzle.
I believe the true paradox twist rate was 1:36" so you might be a bit slow for the fosbery slug?
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rigbymauser
.400 member
Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 2021
Loc: Denmark
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Quote:
Quote:
..and again, 3 indentsments are roll die unto the barrel. They go all the way out and they have a twist of something like 1:70 + they sqeezes tighter towards the muzzle.
I believe the true paradox twist rate was 1:36" so you might be a bit slow for the fosbery slug?
You are right!.
I have tried now my homecast fosberry slugs of .743". They didn´t do so well. I believe this ball gun is made for roundballs somehow, even though it was made in 1903 and sold in 1905.
My slugs weighed over 800grains which is too much. Maybe if the slug weighed 720grain instead.
My enigma is still why Rigbys in 1903 made a gun to shoot roundballs, when the whole world of british gunmakes had turned over to conicals?..Even Rigby by 1896 did conicals in their ball&Shot guns. The gun has a 100yard flipsight and the gun weighs over 8ibs...all indicating it´s a heavy ball gun using conicals.
I will here soon try roundballs...maybe I am in for a surprise?.
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