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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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Altamaha
.333 member


Reged: 29/12/08
Posts: 376
Loc: Washington State USA
Re: 510 Wells Build Questions [Re: xausa]
      #152461 - 01/02/10 04:18 PM

Quote:

My solution, which John Buhmiller and I arrived at separately, was to cut the .460 Weatherby case down to 2.50" and neck the remaining case to .500-.505" (I did one of each). This allowed the loaded round to feed through the M1917 magazine box I fitted to my P-14 actions with no modifications. We both felt the full sized .460 case was too long and had excess case capacity.
My cartridge has just enough shoulder to make it feed easily.

The resulting case holds 90 grains of 4064 up to the base of the bullet and duplicates .500 Nitro Express velocities in a 22" barrel producing 2150 fps with a 570 grain bullet. If you PM me your email address, I can send you pictures of the rifle and cartridge.



You were years ahead of the 460 A-Square short.

Most everything in big bores has already been done, might take a little searching to find out that a new cartridge design some one is thinking of was accomplished years ago!!!

Edited by Altamaha (01/02/10 04:24 PM)

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Altamaha
.333 member


Reged: 29/12/08
Posts: 376
Loc: Washington State USA
Re: 510 Wells Build Questions [Re: Altamaha]
      #152525 - 02/02/10 07:38 AM

Truing the Enfield Receiver Ring

Below photo shows a stripped 1917 Winchester Enfield action with the truing mandrel.




Below photo shows the action mounted on the truing mandrel and set up between centers in the lathe. The tool bit will be moved out, 90 degrees to the axis of the receiver, as the action is rotated. This faces the front of the receiver ring flat and at a 90 degree angle to the action, and later installed barrel, centerline.



Below photo shows the bottom of the Enfield action and several 50 caliber cartridges and bullets. The cartridge in the action opening is a 50-110 case with a 535 grain Woodleigh seated. COL is 2.935”. Note this is a softnose bullet with the exposed lead turned off, giving a flat nose bullet.
Cartridges below the action: 450 Rigby with the bronze solid. 460 Weatherby with 500 grain softnose. 510 A-Square with a 600 grain cast lead bullet.
Cartridges above the action: 500 Nitro 3-1/4” with another trimmed Woodleigh. 500 AHR with 535 grain Woodleigh SA. 500 Jeffery with 535 grain Woodleigh SN.

Bullets to the left of the action: From bottom: The trimmed Woodleigh, now weighs 505 grains. Then a 535 grain Woodleigh SN. Then two 535 grain Woodleigh PP. The next two are cut down 50 BMG bullets with the base now used as the front. One is solid bronze at 400 grains with bore diameter grooves cut into the shank, the other is a lead core steel jacket, moly coated, at 500 grains. Top bullet is the original 50 BMG moly coated.

Details on the cartridge on the action: With the bullet seated as shown, this case holds 103 grains of powder. At 15 feet from the muzzle, velocity was 2486 ft/sec, with a pressure of 59,313 psi. Energy was 6958 ft/lbs. So you can see why I terminated the project, this cartridge will chamber in a 1886 Winchester and other old weak 50-110 rifles!

You will note the opening in the action is longer than the cartridge, actually around 3-1/2 inches. This is the original unaltered 1917 length. Back when I was doing this work I was thinking of using a 500 Nitro case, trimmed a little, to give me a COL to match the action opening. My QuickLoad calculations gave me over 8000 ft/lbs with this combination, all with a 22 inch barrel. So there is a lot of potential here. If I get back into this project, I will run the numbers with the 500 AHR case, as it has a very large powder capacity. The problem with using a trimmed 500 Nitro case is it would chamber in a 500 Nitro double Rifle if the rim was maintained, and I would have the same problem as with the 50-110 cartridges: Instant gun wreck if the cartridge fell into the wrong rifle! The 500 AHR or the 500 Jeffery likely would be the best cartridge for the bolt action. Maybe the 510 Wells or A-Square.

The problem as I see it with these big bullets at over 2400 ft/sec is the recoil gets to be quite stout.

Anyway, lots of room here for experimentation. I may return to this project in the future, but my gun building backlog now has too many projects!



Edited by Altamaha (02/02/10 09:27 AM)

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hansol
.224 member


Reged: 15/08/08
Posts: 33
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Re: 510 Wells Build Questions [Re: Altamaha]
      #152529 - 02/02/10 08:31 AM

Wow, GREAT info being shared here. This is very much appreciated. I really don't know what to say, other than a BIG thank you to all whom have shared tidbits and advice. It's looking like this is going to become quite the project.

Still waiting on the parts to show up here, but hopefully this week I'll have everything in place to at least start a bit of action work.

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Altamaha
.333 member


Reged: 29/12/08
Posts: 376
Loc: Washington State USA
Re: 510 Wells Build Questions [Re: hansol]
      #152534 - 02/02/10 09:22 AM

Hansol,

Keep in mind that nothing has been done to the Enfield action in the photos other than milling the rear sight rails off. Rear bridge needs to be contoured, ejection port needs to be altered, clip slot needs to be milled away and much other work, including new bolt handle, cock on opening modification and trigger work or a new trigger. And the usual opening up of the rails for the larger cartridge and making a new magazine box. Somewhere around the shop I have a hinged floorplate I made for the Enfields. The Enfields take a lot of work, but if done correctly, results in a nice looking action. I think Duane Weibe (customgunandrifle.com)in Tacoma is now CNC machining a floorplate for the Enfields.

Post here or PM me if you have more questions.

Below we have 8 more actions I have stashed away for future projects. Three on the right are Remingtons, 5 on the left are Winchesters. Remingtons are preferred as they do not have the recess milled in the rear bridge for a sight spring as in the Winchesters. Eddystones are generally avoided as they often have a crack in the front receiver ring.



Edited by Altamaha (02/02/10 11:42 AM)

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Altamaha
.333 member


Reged: 29/12/08
Posts: 376
Loc: Washington State USA
Re: 510 Wells Build Questions [Re: Altamaha]
      #152579 - 02/02/10 02:04 PM

Here ya go, a conversion that BSA used to do many years ago. If you look very close you can see where the rear sight spring hole was welded up, the bluing is not uniform. From experience, tapping the heat affected area for a scope base screw can be a real bear, the 3-1/2 per cent nickle steel alloy gets very hard when welded. This is the real reason why I like the Remington actions, there is no hole to weld up!!!!

My last Enfield job was some 20 years ago, only photos I have are on 35mm film.

And, one thing the BSA guys failed to do is mill out the charging clip recess, do not need it on a sporting rifle, it looks awful, and the sharp points will cut your fingers. I mill all the way to the rear opening of the charging slot, and continue the milling down to the same height as the right rail, using a 1/4" diameter carbide end mill to give a nice radius at the junction. That truing arbor in the above photos has a lot of uses, I also use it in the milling machine to hold the action in conjunction with a dividing head when I am radiusing the rear bridge and milling out the charging clip slot. You will need the extra length in the ejection port anyway for the big cartridges like the 510 Wells.

When I used a Winchester action and welded up the hole in the rear bridge, I would use a piece of 4140 ground for a snug fit into the hole with a little metal sticking up above the bridge, Then a TIG weld with 3-1/2 per cent nickle steel welding rod (get it from Brownells) all around. Radius the bridge a little over size first, weld in the plug, then accomplish the final radiusing and polishing. Use the same rod for bolt handle welding. Cut the bolt handle off way down on the shank, you want the weld as far as possible from the main bolt body. Be sure to use a copper heat sink inside the bolt and wet rags to keep as much heat as possible out of the bolt body.

And forget about tapping the side of the rear bridge for a Lyman or Redfield type sight, they are far too fragile for a big bore stopping rifle.

The floorplate on the BSA has been flattened but not hinged.

Current rumor is that BSA sold a lot of the converted Enfields in Canada, so a search of gunshops in bigger cities might turn one up.



Edited by Altamaha (02/02/10 02:17 PM)

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Rolf
.333 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 402
Loc: Germany, Bavaria
Re: 510 Wells Build Questions [Re: Altamaha]
      #152610 - 02/02/10 10:16 PM

Gentlemen,

I own an original Heym Express in 500 A-Square.

If anybody is interested, I can measure dimensions of barrel, twist, weight of rifle and such "points of interest".

best regards
Rolf

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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: 510 Wells Build Questions [Re: Altamaha]
      #152616 - 02/02/10 11:44 PM

Altamaha,

I guess someone forgot to tell my Lyman 48 receiver sight that it is too fragile to use on a big bore stopping rifle. It has been on my .505 for 40 years now, and is still holding up fine.

The same is true about my 1930's vintage Noske scope on my bolt action .577. It just keeps chugging along.

I have the feeling that the Lyman sight, at least the late model ones, do not have enough mass to cause inertia problems, where the earlier, heavier models probably did. Mine is a late model.

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Altamaha
.333 member


Reged: 29/12/08
Posts: 376
Loc: Washington State USA
Re: 510 Wells Build Questions [Re: xausa]
      #152628 - 03/02/10 02:24 AM

Yes, for a person that takes care of the rifle and does not throw it around gun racks and beats it up in the outback, sure, the side mount rear sights are OK. I put a couple of rifles together many years ago for a rough and burley guy, he wanted a drop proof rear sight: One that would survive a upside down drop to the rocks. So I came up with a none adjustable ghost ring style machined out of solid 4140. Took a few tries to "regulate" the rear sights, but end result was point of impact at 50 yards, which he wanted.

My 375 has a Lyman 48 on the rear bridge, I bent it years ago when I fell down a rocky slope. The rifle was useless until I had it back in the shop, put in another slide and aperture, and sighted the rifle in at the range. It was a good thing I was elk hunting in the local mountains instead of on some far away hunt!

So, my opinion, and you know what it is worth, is if a rifle receives reasonable care, the normal receiver sights are just fine. But if a rifle is subject to rough use and must be the utmost in reliability, over and over again, in and out of vehicles, drug through countless miles of rough country,then a fail safe system should be employed. I feel that a big bore "stopping class" rifle is intended for use far, far away from a gun repair shop, so it should be iron clad.

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hansol
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Reged: 15/08/08
Posts: 33
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Re: 510 Wells Build Questions [Re: Altamaha]
      #152729 - 03/02/10 07:33 PM

Rolf,

I would very much appreciate if you happened to go through the trouble of listing the specs of that rifle of yours. I've seen pictures of one, but to have the actual listed specs would certainly be something worth having.

Best regards -Cameron

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Rolf
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 402
Loc: Germany, Bavaria
Re: 510 Wells Build Questions [Re: Altamaha]
      #152749 - 03/02/10 11:51 PM

Hello Cameron,

I can take dimensions on weekend, I will report on Monday/Tuesday.

best regards
Rolf

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Rolf
.333 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 402
Loc: Germany, Bavaria
Re: 510 Wells Build Questions [Re: Rolf]
      #153159 - 08/02/10 10:59 PM

Cameron,
Gentlemen,

please find below the measured dimensions and information about my Heym Expres in .500 A-Square.

best regards
Rolf

Heym Express rifle

The rifle was aquired in 1991.
All metal parts steel, exterieur parts bead blasted and parkerized.

caliber: .500 A-Square
total length: 116 cm
total weight: 4,6 kg
system: Mauser 98 Magnum (improved, new production of 1990)
controlled round feed, firing pin assembly consists of two parts: a spring tension loaded steel rod for transmitting the strike and the real firing pin; (an additional firing pin is stored in the chamber in the pistol grip)

safety: horizontal 3 position safety, blocking the firing pin
standard trigger, letoff at ca. 1200 grams, crisp

barrel: 610mm / ca. 24”, no muzzle break nor mangna-port
twist: 254 mm = 1 : 10”

barrel dimensions: dia. 31,0mm at the system, cylindrical for 35mm length from system interface toward the muzzle, then tapering to muzzle dia. 21,5mm

magzine box: milled magazine box, capacity 4 cartridges in two rows
inner length 96,5mm, with milled cartridge shoulder stop
floorplate to open with a latch in the trigger guard

sights: system with two flat areas on the upper side, each prepared with 2 threaded bore holes for telescopic sight mount (not used at my rifle), all holes closed with headless screws
front sight: white round front sight, dia 4,0mm, massive steel part
rear sight: massive steel, one standing shallow express leaf marked “50m”,
two folding leafes marked “100m” and “200m”,centerline engraved
distance from rear sight to front sight: 420mm

strap fixing: steel ring over barrel, soldered to barrel; and steel screw in stock

wood: plain walnut stock, enforced with glass bedding and two crossbolts,
rear end of stock covered with pachmayer recoil pad, ca. 43mm wide

balance point: at the interface between barrel and system (rifle unloaded)

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hansol
.224 member


Reged: 15/08/08
Posts: 33
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Re: 510 Wells Build Questions [Re: Rolf]
      #153210 - 09/02/10 04:41 PM

Rolf,

I really appreciate your info. Those are great specs to have for this.

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Rolf
.333 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 402
Loc: Germany, Bavaria
Re: 510 Wells Build Questions [Re: hansol]
      #153214 - 09/02/10 09:50 PM

Hello,

you΄re welcome!

If you need more information about the rifle or reloading, please send me a PM.

Otherwise, if you happen to visit Munich/Bavaria/Germany, please be invited to shoot the rifle on the range (elephants are currently out of my stock :-)

best regards
Rolf

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Paul
.400 member


Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: 510 Wells Build Questions [Re: Rolf]
      #153216 - 10/02/10 12:01 AM

A very interesting thread! As I've said before, I can never quite work out why everyone wants to do away with the distinctive Enfield bolt handle, though. Mill off the ears by all means, terminate the pregnant magazine if you must but leave the dog-leg handle. It puts the knob back where you need it and the shank leading to it must be easier to grip on the back stoke without any sweep. Unlike most other military handles, it looks as though it should clear a scope.

It is the eye-exercising forgings and milling on the old military actions that gives them character modern turned-rod sporters have left behind.

Cheers
- Paul

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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: 510 Wells Build Questions [Re: Paul]
      #153217 - 10/02/10 12:28 AM

Quote:


It is the eye-exercising forgings and milling on the old military actions that gives them character modern turned-rod sporters have left behind.





Well, my rifles have been called a lot of things over the years, but "modern turned-rod sporters" Was not one of them.

If you examine the pictures of my altered Enfield bolt handle, you will see that the bolt knob is back where it started before the alteration. If it hadn't been, I wouldn't have been able to perform the rapid fire exercises with it I actually did (four solid hits on a running rhino, four solid hits on a running Cape buffalo).

Altering the Enfield bolt certainly is not necessary from the standpoint of mounting a scope. It is plenty low already, and the safety presents no problems either, except that there is no way to cycle the bolt with the safety on, and disassembling the bolt can be a real bear, compared to disassembling any Mauser or Mauser derived (Springfield, etc.) action, where all you have to do is set the safety on the intermediate position and then depress the latch and unscrew the bolt sleeve. Unscrewing an Enfield bolt sleeve requires either the use of a vise or a lot of muscle power to accomplish.

I'm quite fond of the Enfield action, but until Remington did some major cosmetic fixes on it and dubbed it the Model 720, it was certainly not a thing of beauty.

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Paul
.400 member


Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: 510 Wells Build Questions [Re: xausa]
      #153268 - 10/02/10 06:38 PM

Ease of disassembly is certainly a consideration, xausa. I've often wondered how the FN Browning and PH Mausers are pulled to bits without a flag safety standing up.

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hansol
.224 member


Reged: 15/08/08
Posts: 33
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Re: 510 Wells Build Questions [Re: Paul]
      #153340 - 11/02/10 10:15 AM

Damn, I just wrote up a big post, but it timed out... Anyway, the short version was thanking everyone for their help so far. The action showed up this week, so I'll have some time to mill off the ears and get it sorted out.

I've gone back to the .510 Wells idea (using the .460 case), because aside from the issues Altamaha listed, I feel it will probably be easier to get a belted case to feed a little better than the rimmed case. In theory anyways.

But again, thanks for all the help, and I will post a few before/after pics of the action here soon. Cheers!

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