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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27009
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Rifled shotgun barrels as inserts [Re: Tallchief]
      #161602 - 07/06/10 12:54 AM

Length & twist, Al, if you would be so kind, please.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Paul
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Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: Rifled shotgun barrels as inserts [Re: Tallchief]
      #161648 - 07/06/10 09:31 PM

Tallchief, if you're still having trouble getting the barrels to shoot together, you could cobble up a variation on my old self-alternating rear sight:

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=1Hw1AAAAEBAJ&dq=3404598&ie=ISO-8859-1

It's well out of patent now, of course, and would be a bit of work to make as a one off. If one barrel shoots higher the other you could get a forward-tipping folding-leaf sight, set the higher leaf for the lower-shooting barrel, lighten the spring in it and epoxy a couple of little lead weights high on the front. Then, when you fire, the inertia under recoil should drop that sight down, leaving you to sight over a lower leaf (set for the other barrel) with no weights to pull it down.

Not spiffing enough for the purist, of course, but it does work.

- Paul

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Al_in_Mi
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Reged: 08/01/06
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Loc: Michigan
Re: Rifled shotgun barrels as inserts [Re: DarylS]
      #161674 - 08/06/10 09:31 AM

Quote:

Length & twist, Al, if you would be so kind, please.



24 1/2" long, .812 at the muzzle tapering to 1", .900 x 2 3/4" long shank. I'm assuming this is slipped into the mono block and soldered in

bores are .721, and about a 28 twist as close as I can get.

Tom said they were a alloy steel, they do check 28rc.

I'll get some pics later tomorrow and post them.

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Tallchief
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Reged: 11/12/09
Posts: 108
Loc: Colorado,USA
Re: Rifled shotgun barrels as inserts [Re: Paul]
      #161819 - 10/06/10 11:48 AM

Thats an amzaing idea you have there. I will have to store it away and maybe try it if things don't regulate quite right.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Rifled shotgun barrels as inserts [Re: Tallchief]
      #161843 - 11/06/10 12:37 AM

TKS, Al. Sounds like an interesting project.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Paul
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Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: Rifled shotgun barrels as inserts [Re: DarylS]
      #161936 - 11/06/10 09:48 PM

Thanks Tallchief. All I ever got out of it was a collection of distinguished letterheads
on letters saying thanks but no thanks, so you're welcome to have a go. Some versions were a bit Heath Robinson but simple ones like the one I mapped out to you could be used for long-distance shots even where ordinary sights work close up.

Cheers
- Paul

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DarylS
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Re: Rifled shotgun barrels as inserts [Re: Paul]
      #161938 - 11/06/10 10:59 PM

Amazing how much 'change' happens with component variations - different wads, different powders, different projectiles. My .58 double printed 2 1/2" vertical separation first couple times out to the range - changing patch thickness and ball size - larger ball and heavier patches & more powder removed the vertical dispersion and both tubes now shoot to the same point of aim at 50 yards.

Pretty much the same happened to my 12 bore smooth-rifle. changing wads & powder charges moved the barrels together perfectly, but it was a fairly narrow breeched gun. Many shotguns have too much separation at the breeches, but heavier charges can separate the impacts. This is where black powder charges can come in handy, due to the much heavier recoil for any given velocity over smokeless loads.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: Rifled shotgun barrels as inserts [Re: DarylS]
      #161950 - 12/06/10 12:36 AM


Hello,

Back to the original Topic,

I looked at the dimensions between the 20 ga and the 12 ga.
I decided that the conversion tubes will not work.
The conversion tube for the 45-70 has allot of meat around the chamber,
this allows a slot to be milled and an extractor to be made.
This extractor is activated by the original extractor in the gun, and just bridges the gap between rims so to speak.
It rides in the slot and is retained by a wire circlip that sits in a groove around the tube.

The 20 ga conversion will only have a 0.030 " thou, wall.
Not enough meat for and extractor of the same style as described above.
One option would be to make a new extractor and fit it after the tubes are installed.
This is possible, but this would make the conversion less than drop in.

I have therefore decided to make a whole gun.
I will have the blanks put towards having a 20 ga SXS gun converted from smoothbore
to fully rifled.
I will keep you posted.

Thanks
Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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Tallchief
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Reged: 11/12/09
Posts: 108
Loc: Colorado,USA
Re: Rifled shotgun barrels as inserts [Re: nitro450exp]
      #161958 - 12/06/10 08:33 AM

Yep your right!. One would have to go the 10 bore route and sleeve the barrel ends. This does promote the ability to use concentric sleeves for better initial regulation. As Daryl has said ,the rest is bullet weight powder and a lot of shooting....but doable in my very humble opinion
TC

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27009
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Rifled shotgun barrels as inserts [Re: Tallchief]
      #161960 - 12/06/10 09:31 AM

Yes - using the barrels for a 'replacement' job sounds better. I'm assuming the .721" is a typo - meant to be .621" bore?

To gain height, extractors can be welded up with a bead and re-cut after filing roughly to shape.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
.333 member


Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: Rifled shotgun barrels as inserts [Re: DarylS]
      #162092 - 14/06/10 10:35 PM

Daryl S

I did not type the 0.721" it was Al in MI.
So I have no idea.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27009
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Rifled shotgun barrels as inserts [Re: nitro450exp]
      #162093 - 14/06/10 11:47 PM

sorry - my fault.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: Rifled shotgun barrels as inserts [Re: DarylS]
      #166189 - 13/08/10 11:36 PM

Hello

I believe Daryl asked how the tubes shoot.

This is 42 grains IMR at 50 yds over Iron sights.



This is 41 grains also at 50 yds same sights.



The sights.



Still working on getting the barrels closer.
I think the original shotgun will only ever be capable of 6" at 50 yds.
Which for me on deer and hogs is fine.

Thanks
Nitro

Edited by CptCurl (18/08/10 08:52 PM)

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