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NitroXAdministrator
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Seven day safaris ?
      #15118 - 23/05/04 06:24 PM

A lot of safaris and now being sold as seven day safaris. Probably OK for a simple plains game hunt, but how about for cape buffalo plus plains game. Are they too short?



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John aka NitroX

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shakari
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Reged: 09/02/03
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Loc: South Africa
Re: Seven day safaris ? [Re: NitroX]
      #15121 - 23/05/04 11:07 PM

John,

A lot depends on the area. We sell quite a lot of 7 day Buff packages in our Selous area of Tanzania and have no problem at all in getting 2 good Buff and all the other species on the licence (and that occur in the area) on a 7 day hunt. In fact even when we have 2x1 hunts, it's relatively easy to take 4 Buff and 2 lots of plains game
in the same time period.

In our areas in Masailand & Burigi we recommend the client extends their hunt time to 10 days and have 1x1 hunts rather than 2x1.

I guess the other question is, does the client want to travel such a long way for such a short hunt. An increasing number of our clients are opting to stay a few days in RSA and have a few days wingshooting. It's relatively inexpensive, good fun and it helps get over the jet lag before the serious hunting starts.

I've never flown Africa to Oz and don't know what it's like, but I have done the RSA - USa flight and it's a killer.......I'm not at all suprised that some American clients only come once every 2 or 3 years.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



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freischuetz
.224 member


Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 23
Re: Seven day safaris ? [Re: NitroX]
      #15168 - 25/05/04 04:32 AM

John

I would not call a 7 day hunt a safari!
Yes you can collect some animals in seven days, but hunting?? Is more like a drive by shooting?

Clients should book some extra days in camp before and after the hunt at observer or non hunting days. This will give them time to recover from travelling and give them a change to get to know the camp, the staff and the hunting area, their can check their guns, and get ready for their hunting. Observer rates a normally around 200$ p/ day and this is money well spend.
And yes spend as much time as you can afford on your safari.

Hunting is not about quantity its about quality.
Shooting is about quantity and not about quality.



--------------------
Time is your treasure use it wisely you can never replace it


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Seven day safaris ? [Re: freischuetz]
      #15184 - 25/05/04 12:14 PM

I don't agree a seven day safari is like a "drive-by shooting". All of my safaris have been seven day hunts: 1994 Zim; 2002 South Africa; 2002 Zimbabwe, except that one turned out to be 3 1/2 days + 7 days. A hunter makes of the hunt what he wants. If he just wants to sit in the back of a bacci shooting game in most cases he can. If he wants to hunt on foot he can. My 1994 safari we probably walked well in excess of 50 kms.

I just look at a seven day "short" hunt. If on buffalo many times we see the comments you need to take the first good bull you see as the hunt is too short. Or that it may be difficult to find one in that short of time. Then the PH usually wastes the first 2 or 3 days seeing if the client can hunt and shoot!

Also the time it takes say to get to Tanzania. First the long flight over the Indian Ocean (or the Atlantic) to Jo'burg. Perhaps stopping overnight at a hotel and all the f***ing customs problems. Then back through all the airport red tape and another flight to Dar. More red tape. Then probably an very expensive charter flight to the concession.

After all that you then only have seven days on the ground before it is all finished and home you go.

Yes you can go sight seeing and I would. But I would if it was seven days hunting or twenty-one days anyway.

The seven day "short" hunts are usually loaded up on the daily fees too, to squeeze more out of the client seeing the outfitter isn't getting the volume of days.

I guess I'm just having a real whinge seeing I can't go on a seven day, a 15 day or a 21 day safari this year!



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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Bigfive
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Reged: 06/01/03
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Re: Seven day safaris ? [Re: NitroX]
      #15195 - 26/05/04 12:00 AM

I got seven days for you Nitro!!!

--------------------
"Hunting is a way of life"
Bigfive,South Africa


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Seven day safaris ? [Re: Bigfive]
      #15198 - 26/05/04 12:39 AM

Hey Mate. I'll come over there just to hunt Bush Pigs.

Want to kill some pigs.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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freischuetz
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Reged: 05/04/04
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Re: Seven day safaris ? [Re: NitroX]
      #15212 - 26/05/04 06:24 AM

John

There is nothing wrong with a seven day hunt all I said it is not a safari.
Safaris historically involve a longer trip and include normally a full bag consisting out of least one of each of the legal obtainable species occurring in the area. A short safari was 3 months a normal one 6 months! And then add the travel time ????

Except for the very “lucky” ones no one can afford them anymore. Today we call 21 and 30 days hunts safaris.50 years ago their called them short hunts. ( I been born to late)
Please let not call a 7 day hunt a safari lets be fair to the guys which done them some of them would turn over in their grave if their would be hearing of 7 day safaris.

IMO a seven day hunt for buffalo is normally sufficient if the client is happy with good representative trophy. And he do not have to take the first one he sees, however no one can guarantee he will get a better one later. It’s a chance you have to take, if every one would be honest you could ask your PH and he would give advise. I seen it working out in both direction with elephant and buffalo in particular refuse a nice one and then you have to take the consequences as a "sports" man. I personally would set myself a realistic target and then go for it.
It is unrealistic to aspect a “full bag” for buffalo and six or seven other top quality trophies in a seven day hunt not in a wild, unfenced area hunting in a classical way. Yes I happens once or twice a year.

I do not agree with you that the price is loaded for short hunts actually the opposite is true the package price for a 10 days buffalo package which consist of 8 hunting days and 2 non hunting days is 7000$ if you would book this according to the normal price list you would pay 700$ for each hunting day and 200$ for the 2 non hunting day’s plus the license fee for one buffalo 400$ plus the buffalo trophy fees of 2000$ which cost you a total of 8400$ you save 1400$ with the package! The disadvantage of the package is your limitation to hunt some of other species like cats or sable etc.

And what is 50 km in 7 days? I understand you own a GSP? How many km do you walk with him a day hunting ??? I used to breed gsp's have them since the sixties love to hunt with them. IMO nothing better than a nice bird hunt with a good dog and a light 16ga. S/S.

Come and visit we got plenty pigs to!


--------------------
Time is your treasure use it wisely you can never replace it


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JudgeG
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Loc: Georgia Coast
Re: Seven day safaris ? [Re: freischuetz]
      #15226 - 26/05/04 12:56 PM

I've done longer safaris (or hunting trips if you prefer), but on a 7 day safari to the Selous, I could have taken every animal on the license in Tanzania. None were (or would have been) "drive by". My trip didn't include the day flying in or out, so it was really 9 days, but I had plenty of time to make 10 or so stalks on buffalo (and took two representative animals). Seven days are not enough, 21 days isn't either....... but if that's what you can do... do it!

BTW, I leave for RSA and Zim in the morning... can't wait!

--------------------
JudgeG
Old and getting older, I hope. But once I was young.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Seven day safaris ? [Re: JudgeG]
      #15231 - 26/05/04 02:45 PM

Judge

Good luck.

What rifles are you taking this time? Buffalo again?

Have a good time.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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shakari
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Re: Seven day safaris ? [Re: NitroX]
      #15249 - 27/05/04 03:15 AM

Judge, have a great hunt and I look forward to hearing about it.

To be pedantic. Safari means 'journey' nothing more and nothing less.

Whether you call it a 7 day hunt or safari or anything else, a 7 day hunt (or safari) is all many people can afford either in time or money, or both......and from my experience 7 day hunts (or safaris) are by far the most popular of all. It's enough time to take all the species that occur in a single area on a 7 day licence in Tanzania and it's also enough time to take a good range of plains game in countries like Namibia or RSA.... I'd agree that a longer safari (or hunt) is a better experience overall, but a 7 day trip (or hunt or safari) is better than none at all.

I've been involved in an awful lot of 7 day hunts (or safaris) in a reasonable number of African countries.....but I've NEVER been involved in a drive by shooting.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Edited by shakari (28/05/04 03:20 AM)


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mikeh416Rigby
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Re: Seven day safaris ? [Re: shakari]
      #15255 - 27/05/04 10:40 AM

I agree with you. Play the hand you're dealt, and go for as long or as short a time as you can. Above all, have fun.

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atkinson6
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Reged: 26/01/04
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Loc: Idaho
Re: Seven day safaris ? [Re: mikeh416Rigby]
      #15309 - 29/05/04 10:58 AM

We do a lot of 7 day Safaris each year in the Selous, and I don't hear any complaints, everyone is very satisfied..Jugdge G, 1115, palmer, Antonio, Saeed and several others whos Internet names I cannot recall hunt with us. The all get all the Buffalo and plainsgame on the list and its all fair chase hunting, no different than a 21 day hunt, just shorter..thats the only difference.

We would not normally allow anyone to have extra days as an observer, those are for non hunters that attend the hunter..Extra days hunting are allowed, but we are too booked to let someone sit around camp for $275. per day when we can sell that day for $850..Just a fact of life.

We do have our man in Dar es Salaam that will show you around the sights for no charge, just a tip and some help on his gas..The hotel is $150 per night.

The cost of operating a safari camp in Tanzania is extremely expensive, it takes a crew of 20 three weeks to set up a camp that is 500 miles from civilization..Everything is trucked in over land and maybe some roads and maybe just across country for 5 days or whatever..Some supplies are flown in with each hunter. It is an awsome complicated affair and until one sees it in operantion it is hard to imagine..All those folks (staff and hunters) have to be fed three times daily and then the camp must be totally destroyed and burned before we leave in mid Nov...That is where the expense comes from....And with the increase in fuel its going to get more expensive in 2005 I suspect...

I suspect more and more the 7 day safari will become the norm...but remember you cannot do a lot of 7 day hunts between July1 and Nov. 15th,when you have a lot of 21 days hunts booked..

I have only touched the tip of the iceberg, but that should give all some insight into the Safari business.


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NONE
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Reged: 15/12/03
Posts: 110
Re: Seven day safaris ? [Re: atkinson6]
      #15437 - 02/06/04 08:16 AM

I will have a better answer after my hunt as to my opinion on the subject but the 7 day hunt was perfect for me. I do not have the time to take a much longer hunt. By the time I added four more days of wing shooting in RSA and have a few days added for layovers a few more for travel etc... I will be out of action for 17 days not including any time to recoup. To me that is an eternity and though I am looking quite forward to getting away I hope I have a company to return to, I simply do not have the time to invest in a 21 day hunt or longer maybe one day but not in the near future.

I am quite happy to have the 7 day option and a opportunity to get my feet wet so to speak on DG. I also understand time is short and I am willing to spend the time to hunt and find what I have come for which is buff, I am not going to Africa to simply fill tags I am going to hunt and have an experience hence the reason I am excited to see different parts of the continent and if that is your reason for going and you are understanding of time restrictions I see no reason why 7 days would not be adequate. I am sure no amount of time would be "long enough" once you are there.

James F. Nixon III


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Seven day safaris ? [Re: atkinson6]
      #15448 - 02/06/04 02:26 PM

In reply to:

...but remember you cannot do a lot of 7 day hunts between July1 and Nov. 15th,when you have a lot of 21 days hunts booked..




Ray, Thanks for that piece of info. I never thought about that before and it is a very important bit of information in the pre-planning stage.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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470Nitro
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Reged: 17/09/03
Posts: 467
Loc: Madrid - Spain
Re: Seven day safaris ? [Re: NitroX]
      #15460 - 02/06/04 08:28 PM

En respuesta a:

A lot of safaris and now being sold as seven day safaris. Probably OK for a simple plains game hunt, but how about for cape buffalo plus plains game. Are they too short?




They are too short, but you can fill your license without problems (in a good area of course).
I usually go to hunt an early 7 days safari and a late 21 days per year. I use to take everything in licese in my 7 days, even some more animals (cats included) if I get the right license.

A 7 days safari can be a nice trip for a begginer or a runaway for an advance hunter.

--------------------
-----
down by the river on a friday night
pyramid of cans in the pale moonlight
talkin' 'bout guns and dreamin 'bout women
never had a plan just a livin' for the minute


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