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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns
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poprivit
.333 member


Reged: 09/04/07
Posts: 398
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
10 Gauge Westley Richards shotgun BP
      #145682 - 12/11/09 04:32 AM

I've just come by a double hammer, 10-gauge Westley Richards shotgun. It has 31 inch bbls and is s/n 4208 which puts is around 1877? It's fully engraved and has " Patented October 10th 1865 on the rib near the action. The locks say "Westley Richards & Co."

Condition inside and out is excellent for the age. Mechanically it's very good. I'm thinking of shooting lead balls in it, but not really too sure I want to do that. It has no heirloom value to me, nor am I particularly attracted to it. My interests lie in large caliber handguns, not old shotguns.

What I'd like to really do is trade it for something of equal value. I value it at $2800, give or take.

I'd post photos,but I'm a Luddite. I'll try later.

Ok, so what would you do with it?

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Metalguy
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Reged: 25/10/09
Posts: 152
Loc: Northern WY
Re: 10 Gauge Westley Richards shotgun BP [Re: poprivit]
      #145698 - 12/11/09 08:13 AM

I'd go shoot the hell out of it and see if you enjoy it. Then decide what to do.

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poprivit
.333 member


Reged: 09/04/07
Posts: 398
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
Re: 10 Gauge Westley Richards shotgun BP [Re: Metalguy]
      #145701 - 12/11/09 08:39 AM

Photos of the 10-gauge WR. Bear with me if they don't turn out.

Well, I'm getting nowhere. Here's the URL for Photobucket. There's 4 photos.

Anybody help out here?

http://s924.photobucket.com/albums/ad81/poprivit/

Edited by poprivit (12/11/09 08:44 AM)

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 10 Gauge Westley Richards shotgun BP [Re: poprivit]
      #145702 - 12/11/09 08:54 AM

Here you go. The hammers show a transition shape post pin-fire, and indeed, the barrels might have previously been pin-fire barrels, salvaged, with the pin holes filled.




--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3555
Loc: Colorado
Re: 10 Gauge Westley Richards shotgun BP [Re: DarylS]
      #145715 - 12/11/09 01:46 PM

Bar in wood Westleys are cool guns.
I would think that this gun was originally configured to fire both pinfire and centerfire shells and the pinfire holes were later soldered up.
These Westleys with the single bite lockup are known for their staying tight - is it still tight and on face?

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: 10 Gauge Westley Richards shotgun BP [Re: Huvius]
      #145753 - 13/11/09 03:42 AM

Huvius - I didn't think of the 'dual purpose', but your are most likely absolutely correct.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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poprivit
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Reged: 09/04/07
Posts: 398
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
Re: 10 Gauge Westley Richards shotgun BP [Re: DarylS]
      #145775 - 13/11/09 10:16 AM

Yes, the gun is VERY tight. I'm thinking about using low-power 2.5-3.5 dram black powder shotgun shells in it. I'll probably start off with Winchester blank loads to see how everything works.

It's quite a beast, but in excellent condition.

Pinfire, eh? I'll have to do some research. Do you estimate build date between 1865 and 1875, give or take?

"Bar in wood???" Vos ist los? (Can you tell I'm new at this?)

Daryl S; what did you do to get from the Photobucket URL to photos on the forum? Oh, and thanks for the help.

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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3555
Loc: Colorado
Re: 10 Gauge Westley Richards shotgun BP [Re: poprivit]
      #145791 - 13/11/09 03:41 PM

Poprivit, The "bar in wood" phrase refers to the bar of the action being fully let into the same piece of wood as the buttstock (in a similar fashion as a muzzle loading double) as apposed to the stock wood stopping at the rear of the action. I don't know when this style of stocking gave way to the "modern" style of stocking but it seems like it was a specialty of Westley Richards'.

The Westley site puts your gun at 1872

http://www.westleyrichards.co.uk/THE-COMPANY/Gun-Histories/History-Authentication

BTW, there is this example for sale at Cabelas:
http://www.cabelas.com/gun-inventory---ft-worth---english-sg---882282-wesley-fw.shtml

Notice the difference in the positioning of the firing pins and the way the hammers are shaped for the centerfire only configuration. You should call Cabelas and get a serial number for this one - bet it is just a couple years after yours - still bar in wood, but abandoning the pinfire option.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 10 Gauge Westley Richards shotgun BP [Re: poprivit]
      #145839 - 14/11/09 02:26 AM

Poprivit - you have a private message.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 10 Gauge Westley Richards shotgun BP [Re: DarylS]
      #145840 - 14/11/09 02:31 AM

If the serial number puts it in the '77 era, it's probably correct.
Due to the 'dual' ignition system, I'd have guessed at around 1868 through 1885.
Bar and wood goes back to this system which was also used on doubles.


--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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poprivit
.333 member


Reged: 09/04/07
Posts: 398
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
Re: 10 Gauge Westley Richards shotgun BP [Re: DarylS]
      #145872 - 14/11/09 10:20 AM

The next question is what does one do with one of these? My shotgunning skills rate right up there with my abilities as a brain surgeon. Shoot it? Hell, I couldn't hit my boot with the bloody thing tied inside of it. I fell into this gun accidently and as you can tell from my posts, I know little or nothing about this gun, or any such like. Converted pinfire??? I'da never figured that one out.

The action does have what looks like holes soldered up where the top striker of the hammer would hit. I wonder how hard it would be to find pinfire BP shotgun shells? A tad scarce, I believe.

The firing pins are triangular, and the striker plates (?) are rectangular, held in with a single screw at the top. The barrel release lever is bright blue and 100%. Hammers, screws and trigger guard are engraved and checkering is 90%. Even the forearm screws on the inside of the forearm and the wedge plates are engraved.

The gun looks like it hasn't been cocked since commute vehicles had hooves.

I keep finding more interesting bits and pieces as I study it. Guess I won't hacksaw off the barrels to 18" and stuff it under the car seat.

Neat shotgun, though ...

What to do ...

What to do ...

...and no, Huvius, I won't trade it for your genuine authentic reproduction Tom Mix cowboy hat!


Murph

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 10 Gauge Westley Richards shotgun BP [Re: poprivit]
      #145913 - 15/11/09 05:56 AM

Pin fire shells are easily made from normal brass or plastic hulls. One merely needs to make the pins, drill a proper sized hole in the appropriate location at the rim and there is your pin-fire. Percussion caps are used as the internal ignition source. It is a handloading proposition only.
The gun is in nice shape - I'd shoot it - black powder only, of course - and no Pyrodex, Clean or Clear shot or T-7, real BP only.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (16/11/09 04:19 AM)

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