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carpediem4570
.300 member


Reged: 28/06/08
Posts: 219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
a question on sighting in the dr with hand loads
      #143950 - 19/10/09 04:25 PM

FINALLY:

I am finally going to the range to sight in my A zolli with hand loads I built tonight.

The gun was regulated using an RWS bullet weighing approximately 256 grains doing approximately 2460 feet per second. The calibre is 9.3x74R.

My rifle has been scoped.

When I do my load testing, How many rounds do I shoot at the target for group? Do I shoot the left and then the right barrel or shoot several rounds from the left and several rounds from the right barrel? Do I wait a certain amount of time before shooting the second barrel or do I fire one and then the other in quick sucession?

Any info will be greatly appreciated.

Kindest regards,

Carpediem

--------------------
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways-Chrdonnay in one hand-Chocolate in the other-body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WHOO-HOO, WHAT A RIDE!!"


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: a question on sighting in the dr with hand loads [Re: carpediem4570]
      #143951 - 19/10/09 04:32 PM


Shoot Right, then Left, ........

Shoot only as fast as making sure you have the exact same sight picture for each set - no point in trying to shoot
a group if you pull the trigger with the aim point in different positions.

If I am testing loads, to get a general idea, I shoot 4 per load - 2 right, 2 left. That's initially if I have made up a spread of different loads.

That's my HO, some others may have different opinions.


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carpediem4570
.300 member


Reged: 28/06/08
Posts: 219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Re: a question on regulating the dr with hand loads [Re: 500Nitro]
      #144792 - 30/10/09 08:04 PM

So I finally got to the range today to do some work-up on my d.r..

The results were:

Using a 250 gr. boattail accubond and a 270 gr hotcor, working the loads from least to most powder in one grain increments, the groups on average printed the right barrel dead on and the left barrel two point five to three inches left and seven to nine inches high of the first shot. The powder used was IMR 4064, primer was a WLR. Everything was loaded to SAMI specs. Rifle was shot to 100m and the right barrel printed one inch groups as did the left barrel. Now if only I can get the bullets from each barrel a whole lot closer.

I am going to try IMR 4350 and IMR 4831 and Winchester 748.

I also purchased some Hornady 286 grain Interlocks that I will try out.

Any suggestions on how I can close the gap between the bullts from the right and left barrels?

Please excuse the grammer, it's 2:30 am.

Kindest regards,

Carpediem

--------------------
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways-Chrdonnay in one hand-Chocolate in the other-body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WHOO-HOO, WHAT A RIDE!!"


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rjj771
.224 member


Reged: 24/09/09
Posts: 15
Loc: WNY & TX - USA
Re: a question on regulating the dr with hand loads [Re: carpediem4570]
      #144796 - 30/10/09 09:44 PM

As a novice DR owner I would clean and examine the 2 bores. The 7-9" high on the left barrel is a real concern and could indicate significant velocity variation between the two barrels or just poor barrel regulation. It would be interesting to know if powder weight variation changes the point of impact of that left barrel.
Bob Jurewicz

--------------------


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: a question on regulating the dr with hand loads [Re: rjj771]
      #144797 - 30/10/09 10:05 PM


Unless you know the velocities, then you are wasting time.

Once you know the bullets are coming out of the barrels at the same velocity, then you can look at other factors.

So get or borrow a chrony and re shoot the loads.


And load some up with different primer / powder combo's
- you only need 4 per type - and see which shoot best
out of all of them.

You can get a hell of a lot done in one day with a chrony
and the loads.

The important thing is you can rule out some loads straight away so you spend more time on good loads.


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Birdhunter50
.375 member


Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: a question on sighting in the dr with hand loads [Re: carpediem4570]
      #144801 - 30/10/09 11:58 PM

4570,
I like to shoot a right and then a left, check for impact points and let the rifle cool just a little, then shoot another right/left combo and quit for awhile. Let your rifle completely cool between four shot groups. Your first and second shots need to be your best ones when hunting so I feel it is best to regulate and then sight in with a cold gun. That's the way it will be when hunting.
Getting ahold of a chonograph is excellent advice, you should buy one if you don't already have one. You can learn alot from a chronograph if you pay attention to what it is telling you. I would be more concerned with the fact that the one barrel is shooting that much higher than the other one. Are the barrels soldered together on your gun? If so, you can correct the vertical spread by heating and adjusting. My guess is though, that your gun may have been poorly regulated to start with. To begin with, you should not be shooting over 50 yards, 25 is better to start with.
Try different loads till you find one that shoots equally well in each barrel. You do that by shooting right barrel groups and then left barrel groups. You are trying to find the load that shoots the tightest groups in both barrels combined. Then adjust the barrels till they shoot to the same POI. Shooting at 100 yards to begin with leaves too much room for personal error. You are not out to prove what a good shot you are at 100 yards, but rather trying to learn what your gun is doing.
I know too that this goes against all the "conventional wisdom", but when regulating, I do most of the work sitting down at a bench so that I get maximum stability. Your 9.3 isn't going to kick you much anyway, and you will get a more accurate idea of what the gun is really doing. Place some items on your bench table till it elevates your forehand enough that you can shoot sitting straight up as much as possible. That will allow your body to soak up recoil clear down to your waist. Be sure that you are holding the guns forend the way you do when shooting offhand and only use the padded support to hold your forarm steady, that way it can feely recoil just as it would when hunting. Never let either of the barrels get hot to the touch while shooting, the hottest barrel is going to try and expand from the heat, and it will. You never know which way it will move the POI of the barrels but they will move. It seems that the more intense the cartridge is, the harder it is to get the gun regulated. Big bores with heavy slow moving bullets are easy by comparison Good luck with it. Bob H.


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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: a question on regulating the dr with hand loads [Re: carpediem4570]
      #144820 - 31/10/09 04:26 AM

Quote:

left barrel two point five to three inches left and seven to nine inches high of the first shot.




I hate it when that happens.

Vertical spread is the one thing that a person can't fix himself.

Like Nigel said you must get a hold of a Chronograph to determine the velocity of each barrel. They need to be within about 15 to 20fps of each other.

If they are the same then it is probably a regulation issue. Is this a fixed regulation or can you adjust it yourself. (Don't try and heat the sodder yourself. That is a recipe for disaster)

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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carpediem4570
.300 member


Reged: 28/06/08
Posts: 219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Re: a question on regulating the dr with hand loads [Re: mickey]
      #145336 - 07/11/09 04:57 PM

My appologies for not responding sooner. Big game hunting has started here in Northern Alberta and my wife was drawn for a bull moose tag. We have been out trying to fill that tag.

When I purchased this A. Zoli DR, it came with the regulation target. The rifle was regulated using an RWS H-Mantel bullet weighing 16.7 grams, (258 grains +-) and regulated at 100 metres. The bullet holes are touching. It looks like one big ragged hole.

When I looked up the data on the RWS bullet, the 16.7 gram bullet is purported to be doing approximately 2460 feet per second.

I am told that this rifle may have been manufactured in the 1970's and I believe the RWS ammo in 9.3 H-Mantel was a steel jacketed bullet.

I have decided to start at square one by getting my hands on a box of RWS H-Mantel factory-loaded ammo. If the rifle regulates using the factory rounds, I have a point to start at. If it does not, then I have to re-think my options regarding this dr.

The problem is no one in Alberta, Canada offer RWS ammo. Can someone help by sending me a box of RWS H-Mantel 16.7 gram ammo, or put me in touch with a company that sells the requested box of ammo? Of course I am more than happy to send you the funds to cover the purchase as well as shipping and handling.

In the mean time, I will be out to the range to cronograph the barrels. I will keep you apprised of the goings-on.

Kindest regards,

Carpediem

--------------------
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways-Chrdonnay in one hand-Chocolate in the other-body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WHOO-HOO, WHAT A RIDE!!"


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