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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3555
Loc: Colorado

Std. VS Magnum Action
#142972 - 01/10/09 06:32 AM

I am interested in the opinions of members here regarding preference of one Mauser action length over another.
I have always assumed that true magnum length actioned rifles were inherently more desireable from a rarity/collector standpoint, but not necessarily so for others.
Regarding the Rigby monopoly of the early Mauser magnums - assuming other makers had to use standard actions for their guns - what do you think brings the value of a std. rifle "up" to the desirability of a magnum?

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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500Nitro
.450 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: Std. VS Magnum Action [Re: Huvius]
#142973 - 01/10/09 06:41 AM

Magnum Mausers are always worth more than Standard Mausers.

Other factors come into play like maker, level of gun etc.
ie Holland and Holland Bolt action rifles.

Rigby made some shocking cheap 275 Rigby's but also some ripper quality one's.

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dons
.333 member

Reged: 18/08/07
Posts: 431
Loc: Essex

Re: Std. VS Magnum Action [Re: Huvius]
#142982 - 01/10/09 09:19 AM

Mauser designed their magnum action at Rigby's request in 1898, but they were not granted exclusive use. Rigby was set up as a distributor to the British trade for all size actions until 1912 so other makers could order magnum actions through them. Other makers also modified standard length actions to accept magnum calibers by cutting away the charger slot on the bridge. I think the Kurz action has even greater collector value.

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3555
Loc: Colorado

Re: Std. VS Magnum Action [Re: dons]
#143015 - 02/10/09 03:09 AM

I can see that on a rarity basis, the Kurz is the most desirable and the magnum next.
I also think that a standard length action could also be as rare as these if, say, it was a DSB or other scarce configuration.
My reason for asking is that I am looking into a William Evans 404 and a 425WR which are both on standard length actions - as I suspect most were. Of course, they are priced right up there close to what I would expect a magnum would be (sub $8K for the WR and below $5K for the WE though). Maker condition and chambering help both of these guns stay strong in the market but should they really worth nearly as much as a magnum?

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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dons
.333 member

Reged: 18/08/07
Posts: 431
Loc: Essex

Re: Std. VS Magnum Action [Re: Huvius]
#143017 - 02/10/09 03:58 AM

Now that I know the specifics of your inquiry, I personally would put a $1000 premium on a magnum action over a modified standard action for a magnum caliber rifle. JMO

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500Nitro
.450 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: Std. VS Magnum Action [Re: dons]
#143019 - 02/10/09 06:06 AM

Well I would price a Magnum action gun in good to excellent condition well above those prices in those calibres / makers
and in other calibres / makers, even higher.

425 has had a bit of a resurgence lately I feel whereas it used to be like a 450/400 Double, no one wanted it.

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rigbymauser
.400 member

Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark

Re: Std. VS Magnum Action [Re: dons]
#143021 - 02/10/09 06:13 AM

Quote:

Now that I know the specifics of your inquiry, I personally would put a $1000 premium on a magnum action over a modified standard action for a magnum caliber rifle. JMO

How much premium would you put to a short intermediate in .303???

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dons
.333 member

Reged: 18/08/07
Posts: 431
Loc: Essex

Re: Std. VS Magnum Action [Re: rigbymauser]
#143026 - 02/10/09 08:34 AM

Fortunately I have a slant box 303, so I don't have to worry about the premium. BTW, I also was an unsuccessful bidder for Andrè's African rifle on eGun.

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3555
Loc: Colorado

Re: Std. VS Magnum Action [Re: dons]
#143031 - 02/10/09 09:41 AM

What African rifle is that?

So do we collectively think the guns I am on the cusp of buying are probably reasonable deals?
I already own three mag. Mausers, and I do like the 404 and 425 and figured that they were both primarily built on std. actions. So, to wait it out for a nice 404 on a genuine mag mauser could be pointless - especially considering the premium $$.

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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pjaln
.375 member

Reged: 08/06/06
Posts: 711
Loc: massachusetts ,U.S.A.

Re: Std. VS Magnum Action [Re: Huvius]
#143035 - 02/10/09 10:14 AM

i had a 333 jeffery on a mag action and thought that it was too much metal for the caliber, i sold it ..but judging from the amount of magnum actions now being produced im happy to say as well as dons that my 303.rigby slant box is my pet ,,followed by my 400/350 step ring ssb magnum..also i think were seeing prices all over the board right now..if that william evans was on a mag action it would probably be 8k then again the seller (if its the same party)also had a 275rigby transition that went for 2500$ so i think the pricing was low to begin with,,,anyone here grab it??...paul

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500Nitro
.450 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: Std. VS Magnum Action [Re: pjaln]
#143037 - 02/10/09 10:18 AM

Huvius

I'd buy them subject to condition.

You'd hate the price of my 505 Gibbs then !!!!

Pricing of some guns does seem to vary alot.

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3555
Loc: Colorado

Re: Std. VS Magnum Action [Re: pjaln]
#143038 - 02/10/09 10:20 AM

Quote:

i had a 333 jeffery on a mag action and thought that it was too much metal for the caliber, i sold it ..but judging from the amount of magnum actions now being produced im happy to say as well as dons that my 303.rigby slant box is my pet ,,followed by my 400/350 step ring ssb magnum..also i think were seeing prices all over the board right now..if that william evans was on a mag action it would probably be 8k then again the seller (if its the same party)also had a 275rigby transition that went for 2500$ so i think the pricing was low to begin with,,,anyone here grab it??...paul

OK, OK, I'm not really looking at the 404.

I bought it. Thought it was a reasonable price.

I feel the same way about my Gibbs .280 although it handles very well.

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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dons
.333 member

Reged: 18/08/07
Posts: 431
Loc: Essex

Re: Std. VS Magnum Action [Re: Huvius]
#143042 - 02/10/09 10:59 AM

Huvius:
Congrats on the 404. Photos please. The last Mauser Oberndorf SB magnum action 404's I saw went for $12K. This is why I decided to buy the Christoph Funk 404 with an Oberndorf SB magnum action at half that price. (see the Photo Forum) The 1909 Oberndorf African rifle on eGun belonged to fellow member "JefferyDenmark" and went for just under $5K. Someone got a great deal on a rare rifle. Photos of the African can be found in this Forum under a thread dated 2-11-08.

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mckinney
.400 member

Reged: 29/01/09
Posts: 1225
Loc: usa

Re: Std. VS Magnum Action [Re: dons]
#143045 - 02/10/09 02:03 PM

Morris Hallowell has a couple of Hoffmans on original magnum mauser actions, one in .404 and the other in .333, in case anyone missed them. Both under $10K

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3555
Loc: Colorado

Re: Std. VS Magnum Action [Re: dons]
#143046 - 02/10/09 02:10 PM

I will post pictures when I get it - assuming all is right with it and there is no reason to send it back.
The serial number is 103XX which according to the William Evans website would place it at 1911 for the year of manufacture.

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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pjaln
.375 member

Reged: 08/06/06
Posts: 711
Loc: massachusetts ,U.S.A.

Re: Std. VS Magnum Action [Re: Huvius]
#143074 - 03/10/09 07:39 AM

huvius, is this evans from doublegunhq?

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3555
Loc: Colorado

Re: Std. VS Magnum Action [Re: pjaln]
#143078 - 03/10/09 11:44 AM

Well, it is from bigfivehq.com which is I believe a shared site with doublegunhq.com.
So, yes it is.
Are you aware of anything about it which I should know?

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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pjaln
.375 member

Reged: 08/06/06
Posts: 711
Loc: massachusetts ,U.S.A.

Re: Std. VS Magnum Action [Re: Huvius]
#143114 - 04/10/09 10:05 AM

huvius,,i seen it on his sight last saturday along with the 275 rigby ,i would have taken the rigby but he wouldnt take a credit card over the phone at that moment so he told me to just log onto his site and check it out ,,i had to get ready to go to a wedding and was running late so i figured id get to it when i got home ,,but too late ,, it was an early gun 3 digit mauser number small ring but it has a split at the wrist that was repaired 2450$ cheap the,,,,,pics of the evans werent to good but from what i could see it looked ok ...paul

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3555
Loc: Colorado

Re: Std. VS Magnum Action [Re: pjaln]
#143845 - 17/10/09 01:14 PM

Pictures are now in the Mauser photos archive.

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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ozhunter
.400 member

Reged: 18/08/04
Posts: 1692
Loc: Sydney, Australia

Re: Std. VS Magnum Action [Re: Huvius]
#143880 - 18/10/09 11:06 AM

Any pictures of the 425WR?
Im always keen to see any 425WR.

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ozhunter
.400 member

Reged: 18/08/04
Posts: 1692
Loc: Sydney, Australia

Re: Std. VS Magnum Action [Re: ozhunter]
#143891 - 18/10/09 03:39 PM

Would there be any practical advantage in using a magnum action for the 404 in lieu of the standard length?

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3555
Loc: Colorado

Re: Std. VS Magnum Action [Re: ozhunter]
#143911 - 19/10/09 02:41 AM

I wouldn't think so.
Really, a magnum action is required only for the 505 Gibbs although it is nice to use a magnum length action for the 416 rigby too.
I have seen a lot of 404's on magnum actions - and I would like one of course - but to my mind, the magnum action is for accomodation of cartridge length, not power/pressure.
After all, even my 500 Schuler is on a standard action.
My Evans doesn't even have the right side of the stripper clip bridge taken off such as Jeffery 404's do - just the little protrusions that point inward which hold the stripper clip in place were taken off. Cases load, cycle and extract with no problems at all - OAL of the 404 fit fine in the standard action.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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ozhunter
.400 member

Reged: 18/08/04
Posts: 1692
Loc: Sydney, Australia

Re: Std. VS Magnum Action [Re: Huvius]
#143946 - 19/10/09 01:31 PM

Thought as much.
For hunting use, the ability to use a standard length action over a big magnum action is one of the reasons that I'm building up a 404Jeffery and not a 416Rigby.

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