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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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sullyva
.224 member


Reged: 06/07/09
Posts: 4
Loc: virginia usa
Open question on the suitiblity of the Baikal sxs shotgun ..
      #142364 - 20/09/09 03:08 AM

for conversion to a double rifle?
Is it strong enough for small base (30-30-3006) cartridges?
Is the receiver forged steel or something else?
Did the Russians modify it when they made their 30-06 and 45/70 rifles? How is it proofed? What pressure?
How do we handle the hammer mounted fireing pins?
How did the Russians modify the pins for the 30-06 Rifle?
Has anyone out there converted a Baikal sxs to a medium power cartridge(303 British-444marlin-308win, ect)
While I am searching for a builder shotgun, I hope some of these questions can be answered so that this elderly retired machinist on a fixed income can begin his next project.
Sullyva

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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Open question on the suitiblity of the Baikal sxs shotgun .. [Re: sullyva]
      #142365 - 20/09/09 03:14 AM

I doubt any one would reccomend a Biakal as a building platform. I suggest you book at some of the builds already done and the discussions here,
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/postlist.php?Cat=0&Board=dblbuild

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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bwananelson
.400 member


Reged: 08/10/07
Posts: 1195
Loc: DELTONA FLORIDA
Re: Open question on the suitiblity of the Baikal sxs shotgun .. [Re: AkMike]
      #142366 - 20/09/09 03:43 AM

why not mine is a great shooter,not an aristocrat as an English double but it will kill what its aimed at.granted it is not a polished beauty but it works and is dependable mine is anyway

--------------------
THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.

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doubleriflejack
.333 member


Reged: 11/11/07
Posts: 352
Loc: Oregon, U.S.A.
Re: Open question on the suitiblity of the Baikal sxs shotgun .. [Re: sullyva]
      #142368 - 20/09/09 04:06 AM

The Baikal .30-06 double rifle is made from same action they use for their Baikal sxs 20 gauge shotgun, and they state that fact on their website. I have machined these actions enough to know that they are some sort of alloy steel of very high quality, maybe 4140 or similar---fact is, they have to be, to hold up under pressures of .30-06, high for a double rifle, while using only Purdey double underbolts with no third fastener at all. My viewpoint is that the Russians used very fine steels, but didn't take enough time for details, nicely finishing, and fine tuning. Since they hold up to .30-06 pressures, they will certainly hold up to any other cartridge producing less pressure. Pay more attention to barrel strength, for any barrels you may put on such actions, than to strength of action itself, because the action will certainly hold up for anything with same or less pressure (rearward thrust against action, over AREA of cartridge head) than .30-06. That area of head will vary, of course, with different size cartridge heads, different calibers, so it should be calculated, as explained in W. Ellis Brown's books, converting double shotguns to double rifles.

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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: Open question on the suitiblity of the Baikal sxs shotgu [Re: sullyva]
      #142378 - 20/09/09 10:20 AM

Real bad idea. Heat treat of the shotgun actions is completely different from the rifles. You could build on one of the rifle actions, but not the shotgun, and would be better off just buying one of the rifles.

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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doubleriflejack
.333 member


Reged: 11/11/07
Posts: 352
Loc: Oregon, U.S.A.
Re: Open question on the suitiblity of the Baikal sxs shotgun .. [Re: sullyva]
      #142847 - 29/09/09 06:48 AM

Baikal told me that they use same action for shotgun, as for rifle, as I said earlier, and it states that fact on their website. I seriously doubt if they use different heat treat for rifle action, as I have milled them both, and they mill the same, same hardness and machining characteristics, so I don't believe they exhibit differing heat treat. Can anybody prove, not guess, that they have differing heat treat?

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27009
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Open question on the suitiblity of the Baikal sxs shotgun .. [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #142885 - 30/09/09 12:36 AM

There is one test - that of time.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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ChrisPer
.300 member


Reged: 12/05/08
Posts: 235
Loc: Australia
Re: Open question on the suitiblity of the Baikal sxs shotgun .. [Re: DarylS]
      #142926 - 30/09/09 04:47 PM

I chip in without direct expertise here, but would like to suggest that you consider a better make for the base of your work.

In automotive custom projects, it is said that 'the car you start out with is the car you end up with'. Double rifle shooting is a lot of fun, but the reason is partly the glamour of old makers, romantic history and great hunters' stories.

When you choose a Baikal you connect to a long history of five-year plans for tractorisation of collective farms, married to the sleek sporty handling of a T-54 tank.

You are going to put maybe $10,000 worth of your own machining time into this project. Give your work some respect, knock out 10 days worth of custom jobs for cash so you can buy an attractive name brand gun as your base. WIth that you would aim to be proud to carry your work and proud to pass it to the next owner.

Just my opinion! And yes, if someone offered me a nice Baikal I would not be too proud to own it, as is, but would not invest several times its value in custom work.

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Birdhunter50
.375 member


Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: Open question on the suitiblity of the Baikal sxs shotgun .. [Re: ChrisPer]
      #142933 - 30/09/09 10:07 PM

There is no reason to mess around trying to convert one of their shotguns to a rifle when you can just go buy one of their rifles so cheaply. If I had to know the answer to the heat treating question, I would take one of each type to a hardness tester. Bob H.

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bwananelson
.400 member


Reged: 08/10/07
Posts: 1195
Loc: DELTONA FLORIDA
Re: Open question on the suitiblity of the Baikal sxs shotgun .. [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #142953 - 01/10/09 01:48 AM

the biakal will soon be not available here through so if you want one get it now.just thought you would be interested

--------------------
THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.

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bigdog
.375 member


Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: Open question on the suitiblity of the Baikal sxs shotgun .. [Re: bwananelson]
      #143075 - 03/10/09 07:54 AM

I have a Bakial that was a 20 guage and it has sucessfully converted to a 50 alaskan double rifle. I did not build it, but the maker has used it for about 3 years and never had any trouble with it. It has short 16 1/2" barrels and it shoots fine.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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