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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive
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malco
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Reged: 11/02/09
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Loc: montana, usa
Any thoughts on screw tension/MS accuracy?
      #142293 - 19/09/09 12:03 AM

Howdy boys--
Anyone have an opinion on action screw tension on Mannlichers? I've generally tried to keep the screws indexed, though I'm wondering if I might get more consistent accuracy if I tighten them down like you do the guard screws on a Mauser. The forward screw ahead of the magazine floor plate in particular will easily turn well past index. If anyone has any thoughts or experience with this, I'd love to hear about it--otherwise I'll experiment at the range and report back! Hope everyone's hunting season is going well--
Malcolm

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Any thoughts on screw tension/MS accuracy? [Re: malco]
      #142296 - 19/09/09 12:56 AM

A gun is a gun, so...

Try this;

Tighten both of them dead tight.

Shoot 4 3-shot groups.

Then leave the front dead tight and LOOSEN the rear 1/8 turn.

Shoot 4 3-shot groups.

Leaving the front dead tight, loosen the rear 1/8 turn more.

Shoot 4 3-shot groups.

This can be done easily at the range and will likely tell you alot about the guns accuracy and where to tighten the gs's.

What you seem to be describing, a truly loose front screw, is never conducive to good accuracy.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by 9.3x57 (19/09/09 02:01 AM)

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malco
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Reged: 11/02/09
Posts: 76
Loc: montana, usa
Re: Any thoughts on screw tension/MS accuracy? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #142297 - 19/09/09 01:10 AM

Thanks for the fast response, 9.3--I'll try your prescription and see what I get. The question specific to MS rifles hinges on the fact that the screws that mate the action to the stock aren't connected to the trigger guard at all, though I guess, like you say, a gun is a gun, and a loose fit is still a loose fit...
Thanks again--
Malcolm

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9.3x57
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Re: Any thoughts on screw tension/MS accuracy? [Re: malco]
      #142301 - 19/09/09 02:04 AM

Sorry bout that. Edited to clarify.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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DarylS
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Re: Any thoughts on screw tension/MS accuracy? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #142302 - 19/09/09 02:56 AM

Gaurd screws should always be tight - or you take the chance on cracking the stock thorugh the recoil lug and/or at the tang.
The only action that shows contrary to this, is one with 3 screws - ie: Winchester M70's. Here, the front and rear gaurd screws are tight and the middle one, only snug.

If a rifle with 2 screws showed better accuracy with one loose, this would mean the bedding is wonky and torquing the action when the screws are tightened. That needs to be repaired. Never shoot a rifle with loose gaurd screws unless you are planning to have to repair some cracks.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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bwananelson
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Reged: 08/10/07
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Re: Any thoughts on screw tension/MS accuracy? [Re: DarylS]
      #142602 - 24/09/09 10:30 AM

or the sequence was wrong i tighten the lug bolt first then the tang screw.a correct bedding job or better yet a bedding block or pillar bedding.at the end of the season i always stip apart and clean and oil that means out of the stock also,buts thats just my way

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THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Any thoughts on screw tension/MS accuracy? [Re: bwananelson]
      #142630 - 24/09/09 09:57 PM

Daryl, when I refer to loosening the rear screw I'm not saying it should be loose.

It is, however, fairly routine to torque the front and rear action screws to a somewhat different weight, with the front be dead tight {mostly} and rear, under compression, backed out no more than a quarter turn {usually less}. This with wood stocks that exhibit some springback and allow some amount of continuous compression. I'm not so sure about metal pillars because in my limited experience they are either dead tight or loose, more or less, and both action screws should be turned very tight {other opinions?}.

I'll second Daryl's warning about shooting loosely held together guns; of whatever type {two-piece stocks, one-piece, etc, damage is almost guaranteed.

Our fellow here, it appears, had a situation where at least one, maybe both {??} screws were actually loose due to the indexing.

I never worry about indexing any screw that needs to be tight. I ignore the Mauser locking screws, too, and have some where they are ground out to allow continued tightening or they are just thrown away entirely. The locking screw is, IMO, one of the very few engineering mistakes applied to the total Mauser package. They serve no purpose, proven by the millions of guns that do not sport them. Worthless as a dewclaw on a hound's leg. Only being outdone in worthlessness by the guard screw stock ferrule!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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malco
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Reged: 11/02/09
Posts: 76
Loc: montana, usa
Re: Any thoughts on screw tension/MS accuracy? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #142672 - 25/09/09 01:57 PM

The gun in question is the 1903 carbine featured in the "Two Uncommon Mannlichers" post. The rear action screw will torque down very slightly past index, but the forward screw will go a bit beyond an eighth-turn past before it seems to snug up. Factory index is obvious because the screw heads are sculpted to the taper of the stock and/or corresponding steel hardware. For what it's worth, Mannlicher Schoenauers do have a steel bushing/ferrule surrounding the rear screw. Please keep commenting--I find all of this instructive!
Best,
Malcolm

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Any thoughts on screw tension/MS accuracy? [Re: malco]
      #142682 - 25/09/09 11:27 PM

Malco;

Yup, forget the indexing.

I have never really been too fond of the whole lining up of screws by "art" since wood compresses and over time the likelihood of that compression resulting in further turning is high, with the temptation then to be to leave the screw "loose" in order to maintain the "art", a bad practise. A VERY thin shim can be fashioned out of aluminum foil or a thicker one from a thin beer can tho getting it perfect is difficult and maybe not worth the effort. I've used a variety of shim stock to get guard screws to line up with locking screws.

The stock ferrules have their own troubles. If slightly too long they can bear weight of the screw and that can be trouble, where the screw is locked down on the ferrule...leaving the action somewhat loose in the stock. In that case the ferrule can be removed, ground down and replaced. Better yet...thrown away as they really serve no purpose.

Sometimes a rear screw may bear against the rear internal part of the ferrule, and, as you can conjure, form a wedge of sorts under recoil, hammering the ferrule into the stock tang area until the natural occurs; splitting at the tang. Again, gently driving out the stock ferrule and finding a home for it in the rubbish bin is the answer.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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malco
.275 member


Reged: 11/02/09
Posts: 76
Loc: montana, usa
Re: Any thoughts on screw tension/MS accuracy? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #142920 - 30/09/09 01:08 PM

Tightened the screws down good and snug and immediately saw better groups with two loads that previously wouldn't group well at all--one a 140-grain Hornady handload, the other factory RWS T-Mantles. Still need to fine-tune, but things look promising--I'll keep the updates coming.
Malcolm

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