Bonde
.333 member
Reged: 16/02/06
Posts: 278
Loc: Norway
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I'm considering to sell my Merkel .470NE, which leaves me with only one DR in 9,3x74R...
Which countries allow 9,3 to be taken against elephant? Is it a sound choice?
I shoot a lot better with a scope, than with iron sights... To be honest, I've never made friends with the iron sights on the merkel..
I suppose I'd be better off using a scopeed 9,3mm all together?
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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill
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grandveneur
.400 member
Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1356
Loc: France / Germany
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I dont understand! You have a DR 470NE, you want to sale it, and you want to shot a elefant with a 9,3x74R? This cartridge is marginal for buffalo hunting! 
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bwananelson
.400 member
Reged: 08/10/07
Posts: 1195
Loc: DELTONA FLORIDA
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It does not meet the legal requirements for dangerous game from what i have been reading,i am no expert but the diameter is under the 375 minimum just but under right..if you want an elephant i would hold on to it a little longer
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THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.
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Bonde
.333 member
Reged: 16/02/06
Posts: 278
Loc: Norway
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There are some african countries that state the 9,3 as a minimum, and I'd like to know which?
As to caliber, the diffrence between a .375 and the 9,3 is merely academic when it comes to solids? I've heard the .375 is marginal, but still capable of putting down an elephant. Would a 9,3mm be that differen?
When it comes to buffalo I agree to a certain degree, as they're primarily hunted with softs.. However, shot placement is the more essential..
To shoot the .470 reliably I'd have to get some sort of scope.. I can't say I fancy a heavy recoiling rifle with s scope, and the stock being to low at the same time..
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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill
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pinotguy
.275 member
Reged: 03/02/07
Posts: 57
Loc: CO
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From what I can gather, I believe Zimbabwe would be the only country where a 9.3 is allowed for DG.
I could certainly be wrong on this and would appreciate being corrected if this is the case.
To me, I would feel OK using a 9.3 on elephant so long as you felt comfortable and confident with it. I think bullet selection would be critically important with this caliber - either of the North Fork Solids or GS Custom FP Solids would be my choice.
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cooch
.300 member
Reged: 21/09/03
Posts: 192
Loc: Southern NSW
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Quote:
As to caliber, the diffrence between a .375 and the 9,3 is merely academic when it comes to solids? I've heard the .375 is marginal, but still capable of putting down an elephant. Would a 9,3mm be that differen?
All differences are "academic"..... until you find yourself in a situation where it matters.
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"The only logical response to an animal that lives obsessed with avoiding capture is to chase it." - Jose Ortega y Gassett
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JPK
.375 member
Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
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Quote:
Quote:
As to caliber, the diffrence between a .375 and the 9,3 is merely academic when it comes to solids? I've heard the .375 is marginal, but still capable of putting down an elephant. Would a 9,3mm be that differen?
All differences are "academic"..... until you find yourself in a situation where it matters.
Ain't that the truth!
A good solid like a Woodleigh, or better yet a NF or GS Custom flat nose solid will have the penetration for a brain shot. But you have NO MARGIN for error. Move to a 450NE-470NE class rifle and you have some marin for error on a brain shot - but not always.
If you should need to stop a charge, you are at a severe disadvantage. Elephants are not hard to turn with enough rifle should the brain shot be imperfect. But a 9.3 isn't enough rifle for this.
JPK
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shakari
.400 member
Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
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Some good advice has already been given, but can I ask why you feel you need to fit a scope to the .470 to shoot it properly?
There's plenty of people who manage to shoot the large calibres (bolts & doubles) with open sights and whilst you might battle with the sights you currently have fitted to your .470, you could probably change them to a different, more user friendly set up.
As an example, the red fibre optic foresights make a world of difference. (See pic below & sorry it's not a better pic)
As to your original question, I think you'll find Zim permits the calibre you mention and I get an idea some of the French speaking African countries also do. Cameroon rings a bell with me, but I'm not 100% sure.
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Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com
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Ndumo
.300 member
Reged: 21/12/03
Posts: 230
Loc: Namibia
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bonde, the 9.3mm is legal in Zim to shoot elephant, and also in Namibia. Namibia's laws do have a 5400J minimum muzzle energy (no caliber minimum) FOR BUFFALO ONLY, and that minimum are sometimes quoted for all big game.
The 470 is a better choice ONLY if you can handle the added recoil.
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Karl Stumpfe
Ndumo Hunting Safaris (Pty) Ltd.
karl@huntingsafaris.net
www.huntingsafaris.net
+264 811 285 416
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grandveneur
.400 member
Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1356
Loc: France / Germany
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If you need a scope for accurate shooting ( i know the problem! ) sell the Merkel 470NE and buy a bolt action rifle caliber .416 with a scope. In this class of calibers, shooting with scopes is not a problem. With a little bit practice shooting very big calibers is not a problem too. I use a scope on a 460WM and a 500Jeffery.
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Bonde
.333 member
Reged: 16/02/06
Posts: 278
Loc: Norway
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Thanks for good advice, point taken  I'll stick to a caliber with "insurance".
I'll se what can be done to the sights on it, otherwise I might see if I can swap it into a Heym PH in .400 class with a scope..
I don't want to take the additional cost of new stocking and a claw mount due to very nice wood and regulation on this rifle. It would not fit at all if I put on a scope, beeing rather low already..
Does anyone know if the standard stock on the PH is higer or lower at the comb than the standard "straight" stock which I have on my Merkel?
I haven't had the pleasure of handling one yet.
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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill
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JPK
.375 member
Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
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I am all but 100% sure that the stock will have drop to accomodate the express sights and not the scope.
I would suggest that you look into a lace on leather comb/cheakpiece or perhaps one of the neoprene versions which stretch to slip on. There are quicker on and off velcro versions as well.
I use one on a slug shotgun equiped with a scope which has a low comb. It makes a world of difference in both more accurate shooting and reduced felt recoil.
Another option is mounting an aimpoint type red dot in lieu of a scope or reliance on open sights. You may read about what some fellows are doing at AccurateReloading.com, in the double rifle forum. Try the search function.
JPK
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Ripp
.577 member
Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
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Quote:
If you need a scope for accurate shooting ( i know the problem! ) sell the Merkel 470NE and buy a bolt action rifle caliber .416 with a scope. In this class of calibers, shooting with scopes is not a problem. With a little bit practice shooting very big calibers is not a problem too. I use a scope on a 460WM and a 500Jeffery.
Agree totally---have used the .416 for many kills and have NEVER felt undergunned..and personally feel they are superior to some of the larger calibers as to penetration...
Ripp
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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..
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NitroX
.700 member
Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 40690
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
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There is no real need for a scope on an "elephant rifle" as usually you will be close for enough for it not to matter. The one exception would be with "eye problems" if a scope helps with that.
I would use a .470 any day before choosing a 9.3x74R for elephant. It not only will give more margin for error but should also give one more confidence as well. Again an exception would be if the recoil bothers you.
Otherwise I think the sub-standard marginal calibres are more for experts or experienced hunters than first time (ele) hunters. I shoot a .450 and a 9.3mm as well and would always choose the .450 on elephant if given a choice.
Of course this is based on MY limited elephant hunting experience only.
Use the .470 on your elephant hunt and sell it AFTERWARDS if you wish. 
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John aka NitroX
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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"
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500grains
.416 member
Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
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With a 9.3, I think I would not like to get too close to the elephant, as getting close increases the chance of a charge, and a 9.3 in the head which misses the brain is not so likely to turn the charge.
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DarylS
.700 member
Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27728
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
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Quote:
Some good advice has already been given, but can I ask why you feel you need to fit a scope to the .470 to shoot it properly?
Many people today have never learned to shoot iron sights well and feel a scope is always needed.
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Daryl
"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V
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Bonde
.333 member
Reged: 16/02/06
Posts: 278
Loc: Norway
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Spot on..
I've grown up with a riflescope, even on the .22
I feel more confident With a scope, on a rifle that fit me well.
I am aware that many shoot marvelously well with iron sights. Unfortunately, I'm not among them at the moment..
I have shot revolvers for 5-6 yrs with rather good results, but to me it's a totally different story to place the bullseye on top of the post, than to shot at something furry.
On the other hand, my shotgun get some shells through it every summer trapshooting, also with fair results..
I don't like to shoot with glasses, and I can't get my focus right with a rifle...
Bottom line: I find it hard to deliver good groups with iron sights.
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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill
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DarylS
.700 member
Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27728
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
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When holding the rear sight low as 6 o'clock as we do with hanggun sights, the quarry is paper or iron.
On game, the ball or bullet should strike right on the top of the front blade. Beads of too large a size are difficult for long range animal shooting - they are not suitable for this. With most rifles, there is no problem with irons out to 200 or 300 yards. I hold, that beyond this range, no animal should be shot at, scope or not. Too much can go wrong & does. With most modern rifles, there is no holdover for shooting to 300 yards - only a few inches being the 'impact error' - even on something such as a wolf, the sights need not leave the animal. Scopes and modern advertizing promote 'sky- shots' that should never be taken.
Failing eyesight will get the better of us, sooner or later. So far, the front sight is pretty clear, as it should be. With good metailic sights, I cans till shoot sub-1" at 100 meters off the bags. Lots of practise helps all.
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Daryl
"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V
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bwananelson
.400 member
Reged: 08/10/07
Posts: 1195
Loc: DELTONA FLORIDA
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yes a scope on a 470 is ok if you want a case of magnum eye.if you cant see 50 yards of less use a smaller gun with a scope swallow your doublepride and shoot what you shoot best give the animal especially an animal as regal as an elephant or buffalo the respect it is deserved.its not a paper target its a super trophy only a few hunters will ever get a chance to chase and shoot.
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THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.
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