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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Muzzleloaders & Blackpowder
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richla
.224 member


Reged: 18/05/07
Posts: 17
Loc: ma
Goex vs Schuetzen Powder?
      #139159 - 18/07/09 03:15 AM

Hi Gang:

I have been using Schuetzen blackpowder in a .50 (patch and ball) with good luck.

As I ran out of it, my local supplier only had the Goex brand, so I bought it. (2FF, by way)

Is thier any significant difference in the brands? I'm now kicking myself for switching, but I believe both are reliable names and good reputations, but I am in the process of fine tuning loads, etc.

Any thoughts?

Thanks
Rich

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Goex vs Schuetzen Powder? [Re: richla]
      #139165 - 18/07/09 05:02 AM

If you were in process on fine-tuning - that might need revisiting for the new powder.

As for the quality of Goex, my experience has been that it's a great powder.
I've gone through development of regulation loads for a handful of blackpowder bore-rifles, as well as load development for quite a few percussion rifles. Running over the chronograph, looking at fouling and studying patches and the results on the targets, Goex has grown to be my favorite powder -- even when (in all cases but one rifle) compared to Swiss brand powder.

That all and the price is right and it's easy to get.


Is this a hunting rifle?




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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richla
.224 member


Reged: 18/05/07
Posts: 17
Loc: ma
Re: Goex vs Schuetzen Powder? [Re: tinker]
      #139166 - 18/07/09 05:22 AM

Tinker, thanks for replying. Yes, it's a hunting rifle that will spend more time on the range, than it will in the woods, as I started this to extend my hunting season, and now I'm in love with blackpowder.

My local shop has been out of 2ff, and when they had Goex, I figured "I don't want to substitute", but if I did, I'd be o.k. with Goex, as I know it's considered a high quality powder, but I have never had any need to compare the differences.

It sounds like I will have to tweak it a bit, but that's to be expected.

Thanks again
Rich

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
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Re: Goex vs Schuetzen Powder? [Re: richla]
      #139170 - 18/07/09 08:21 AM

Rich-


You should do quite well with the Goex powder.
I'm guessing you'll find a load that hits as hard as your old load did, which is as accurate or more accurate than with your old powder.
I run it in a .50 flintlock and a .54 caplock -- on the hot side of the load spectrum I'm getting excellent accuracy and a very very clean burn. The fouling is minimal and soft.

Both of those rifles seem to like thick patching, which ends up holding a good amount of patch lube -- great for use on hunting or field trips that take you into the woods for days at a time. I'm able to run the rifle without having to do a full wet cleaning at night, never had a problem with corrosion.
I'm running roundball too.


Another great feature of the Goex (as it's easier to find and it's cheaper) is that you'll end up shooting more!



Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylSModerator
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Goex vs Schuetzen Powder? [Re: tinker]
      #139206 - 18/07/09 10:55 PM

As with any gun, new or antique-type, changing any component will sometimes require further load development.

With any real black powder, a tight ball/patch combination and proper lubricant results in no need to wipe the obore at any time while at the range.

Most guns need to have the muzzle's crown addressed - radiused and smoothed in order to allow loading a good tgith combination without cutting the patch.

We can only get GOEX here, although friends in the States use Swiss for competition use in BR, chunk shooting and expecially for BP ctg. guns.

The phoney powders give greater shot to shot variations and sometimes pressure excursions along with the percolate types leaving corrosive fouling.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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richla
.224 member


Reged: 18/05/07
Posts: 17
Loc: ma
Re: Goex vs Schuetzen Powder? [Re: DarylS]
      #139215 - 19/07/09 04:44 AM

Daryl, what are you using for a lubricant? You NEVER wipe the bore? Going back in the archives I have read your statement to that effect, can you clarify?
Thanks,
Rich

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
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Re: Goex vs Schuetzen Powder? [Re: richla]
      #139226 - 19/07/09 02:04 PM

Rich-

That's (for me) the most important aspect of 'load development' for my hunting rifles -- right next to basic regulation for the Double Rifles.

I've had success with quite a few different recipes for patch lube, including Thompson Center Bore Butter (which some guys have some particular problem with, not me), Bear Oil (that I rendered myself), Lehigh Valley Patch Lube, and a few recipes I've gotten from here and there - including a couple from Daryl.

With a thick, tight patch you'll have a fair bit of latitude on *how much* of whatever you use, the thickness of the material can carry plenty to get your bore moist from breech to muzzle, and the tightness gives you the chance to get a really good gas seal for the duration of the barrel time - keeping your load from blowing the patch lube past the ball along with the pressure of your burning powder charge.
Gets you consistent velocities too.

The *how much* is part of the trick, and is pretty easy to sort out as long as you have a lube that will work in the first place - you need to consider the range of temperature you'll be dealing with on your hunts. Will the lube freeze in the bore? Will it turn to drool and spoil your powder charge or run down the bore in hot weather?

Once you have settled on a lube that's suitable for the elements you'll simply need to get to the 'just enough' to keep your bore consistently moist from breech to muzzle after the shot and no more. With Bear Oil or Bore Butter or Castor Oil/Murphy's Oil Soap mixture, I'm good for as many shots as I'll shoot in a day, and have a good fouling in the bore for the next morning - again, with no corrosion problems.

Note that I don't run corrosive percussion caps, and I do take good care to completely clean the rifle when it gets back home, oil it properly, and store it properly.
With the right load components, care for the blackpowder rifle is simple.
The only solvent I use for cleaning is cold water.





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Goex vs Schuetzen Powder? [Re: tinker]
      #139245 - 19/07/09 11:49 PM

Rich- if you use an appropriate patch/ball combination, along with a descent lube, you don't have to wipe the bore while you are shooting.

I clean the bore when I get home, preferring to shoot while at the range, not clean.

If you've a good polished crown, radiused and smooth, you can easily load what I call a descent ball/patch combination.

My formula calls a ball that is .005" smaller than the bore (or larger than this) and a patch that measures .020" to .022" in denim, ticking or linen. Those measurements are with a michrometer, not calipers. If using calipers, add .003".

If you cannot load this combination, your crown is too sharp, or perhaps you need more practise.

No one we shoot with needs to wipe the bore during an entire day's shooting - up to or over 100 shots. The fouling never builds up.

We all use short starters, hand made, not one of the lightweight, cheap pieces of crap you can buy. I prefer a section of moose antler base for the knob. It adds weight and is solid bone, not porous. The shaft is 3/8" to 7/16" depending on bore size and is up to 7" long.

We use many different lubes - Hoppe's 9 PLUS, LehighValley Lube, Winter Windshield Washer fluid with a squirt of soap added and of course, spit. The composition of the lube doesn't matter. Licking the patch doesn't constitute a spit lubricated patch. No matter what the lube, it must totally 'wet' the patch through. No- it won't spoil the powder charge.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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richla
.224 member


Reged: 18/05/07
Posts: 17
Loc: ma
Re: Goex vs Schuetzen Powder? [Re: DarylS]
      #139247 - 20/07/09 12:14 AM

Great info, guys, thank you! turns out I'm pretty much heading in the right direction, and I appreciate the tips and clarification.
Thanks again,
Rich

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Dphariss
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Reged: 18/04/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Montana
Re: Goex vs Schuetzen Powder? [Re: richla]
      #139340 - 22/07/09 01:14 PM

Schuetzen is made with a superior charcoal compared to GOEX.
Its is better than Goex but not on par with Swiss.

You may or may not see a difference.

Dan

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