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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> 'Classic' Firearms Photos & Archive
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CptCurlAdministrator
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Win M70 Classic Safari Express x2
      #137363 - 15/06/09 10:01 PM

Yesterday I spent the afternoon shooting my two Winchester M70 Classic Safari Express rifles. One is a .458 Win. Mag. and the other a .375 H&H.

These are genuinely fine rifles. In making these, USRA offered a gift to the sporting community. What a shame they are now a part of history.





In the photo above you see the .458 over the .375.







In this view the .375 is on top.



The .458 sports a vintage Lyman All-American 4x with post reticle.



The .375 has a brand new Leupold VX3 1.75-6. Both scopes are in Warne QD mounts, as the irons are to be functional.

I shot the .375 at 100 and 200 yards. It is quite accurate with my load of 77.0 grains Win 760, CCI 250, Hornady 300 grain RN Interlock. They clocked 2513 fps.

The .458 was shot at 100 yards. I was using a load of 71.0 IMR 3031, CCI 250, Remington 405 grain bullet. This is the bullet intended for the .45/70. I have a bulk supply of 500, so I thought a few loaded for sight-in loads would be a good try-out load. They yielded 2231 fps - not a light load. This would be fine for our white tail deer, but for anything more robust I would certainly go to a bullet made for the .458. Accuracy was really good.

Again, I simply can't help but lament the passing of these fine rifles. Although of fairly recent manufacture, they genuinely deserve the label "Classic." I'm glad I had a camera handy to snap these impromptu photos.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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ovny
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Re: Win M70 Classic Safari Express x2 [Re: CptCurl]
      #137746 - 22/06/09 05:38 AM

Excelent pair of rifles .

Regards,

Oscar.

--------------------
I am Spanish

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gryphon
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Re: Win M70 Classic Safari Express x2 [Re: ovny]
      #137759 - 22/06/09 09:28 AM

My favourite rifle is my Mod 70 XTRin 7mm and while not "classic safari" after using it for 30 years its classic enough for me to know that the pair above are rippers....Nice Curl

And I have to say that IMO my mod 7 is way way much better to pick up,shoulder and shoot with than my Sako 300 WM or my `98 308 NM any day of the week.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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9.3x57
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Re: Win M70 Classic Safari Express x2 [Re: gryphon]
      #137765 - 22/06/09 12:49 PM

Really nice guns.

That .458 load would be a great bear load, and I seriously wonder just how "soft" they are. I've never shot any in my test media at over 2000 fps, but would be very curious to do so. At factory .45-70 velocities the thing acts near like a solid.

All the 70 classics I have seen were really fine rifles. Not sure what the recent ones were like.

Has the Confederate FN Winny factory revved up production of these calibers yet?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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rigbymauser
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Re: Win M70 Classic Safari Express x2 [Re: 9.3x57]
      #138053 - 26/06/09 04:10 PM

Nice pair you have there Curl...
I never took you for a "Boltguy"...

Edited by rigbymauser (26/06/09 04:12 PM)

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Win M70 Classic Safari Express x2 [Re: rigbymauser]
      #138070 - 26/06/09 10:27 PM

Hey Guys, thanks for the nice comments.



Quote:

I never took you for a "Boltguy"...



Yeah, I do some bolts. And I've been known to do a single shot now and again. No trombones or slaughtermatics. And no levers at present. Although I'd have to say, a nice Rem. 14, Savage 99, Win. 71, etc. would not be snubbed.

Of bolts, I'm strictly M98 and M70. I have owned them, but I just can't warm up to the Rem 700.

I really do mourn the second demise of the M70. All these folks who disparage the M70 Classic don't know what they are talking about. It ranks as the greatest offering since 1964, IMHO.

Best,
Curl


Ooooops! Words are made to be eaten.

Quote:

Of bolts, I'm strictly M98 and M70.


I forgot about my Mannlicher Schoenauer .358 when I typed that statement!

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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controlled_feed
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Re: Win M70 Classic Safari Express x2 [Re: CptCurl]
      #138072 - 26/06/09 10:36 PM

A very nice pair of rifles indeed

What sort of money do these type of rifles sell for these days?

CF

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Win M70 Classic Safari Express x2 [Re: controlled_feed]
      #138098 - 27/06/09 12:21 PM

Controlled Feed,

I really don't know what they bring in Oz.

In the U.S. the .375 will bring more than the .458. There's that much more demand for the .375.

From what I have seen the .375 will bring about USD $2,000 to $2,200 or thereabouts.

The .458 will bring from USD $1,700 to $2,000 or thereabouts.

I'm no market expert, but these prices are still dirt cheap.

The funny thing is that a pre-64 .375 brings $3,500 minimum. It's not as good a rifle. It has no crossbolts, and the stock is guaranteed to crack with use. I know, having owned them and shot them extensively.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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kamilaroi
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Re: Win M70 Classic Safari Express x2 [Re: CptCurl]
      #138100 - 27/06/09 01:12 PM

I know of an unmolested circa 1937 375 this way. Any ideas on price?

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RLI
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Re: Win M70 Classic Safari Express x2 [Re: kamilaroi]
      #138101 - 27/06/09 01:23 PM

I have a Winchester "Classic Safari Express" .375H&H in Left Hand (waited over 2 years for it to arrive! ) and have been offered $AUD3500, I have seen a .375 right bolt go for $2500., as for a 1937 Pre-64 in 375H&H if in minty condition $5000+ in Australia.I hope the new factory starts making them again as they are/were very good value.

--------------------
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." — John Wayne

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kamilaroi
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Re: Win M70 Classic Safari Express x2 [Re: RLI]
      #138102 - 27/06/09 02:45 PM

ta mate. this one is out of Africa with provenance (2 owners to date).

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controlled_feed
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Re: Win M70 Classic Safari Express x2 [Re: CptCurl]
      #138108 - 27/06/09 04:41 PM

Thanks Curl

Interesting.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Win M70 Classic Safari Express x2 [Re: RLI]
      #138113 - 27/06/09 09:19 PM

Quote:

I have a Winchester "Classic Safari Express" .375H&H in Left Hand (waited over 2 years for it to arrive! ) and have been offered $AUD3500. . .



Just three days ago I watched a NIB Left Hand Classic Safari Express go for USD $1,175. What a steal! Unbelievable.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=131728690

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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RLI
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Re: Win M70 Classic Safari Express x2 [Re: CptCurl]
      #138134 - 28/06/09 12:17 PM

That was a good buy! Here in Australia the lefty's are much sought after as are the right bolts too, you just don't see them on the market.
I actually wrote to the Winchester custom shop just before they went belly up and enquired on getting 3 left handed M70 in .300H&H, .375H&H and .400H&H but got a letter stating they were taking no more orders!

--------------------
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." — John Wayne

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ovny
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Re: Win M70 Classic Safari Express x2 [Re: RLI]
      #138851 - 13/07/09 01:16 AM

Two excellent rifles.

Oscar.

--------------------
I am Spanish

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taw1126
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Reged: 24/07/07
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Re: Win M70 Classic Safari Express x2 [Re: CptCurl]
      #139821 - 31/07/09 12:12 PM

Quote:

Both scopes are in Warne QD mounts, as the irons are to be functional.

Curl



Capt.:
Nice pair of heavy hitters you have there. Can you make use of the sights with those Warne mounts? I had them on a pre-'64 and couldn't get a sight picture with the irons.

I'm very, very close to pulling the trigger (literally and figuratively) on a M70 Custom African Express. As a long-time collector of pre-war Winchesters, I regard the African Express as the finest looking bolt action ever produced by the folks in New Haven. I suspect that some day they will be more desirable than the pre-'64 M70 African 458's.

Anyway...I'm interested in finding some suitable, low scope mounts. I'd even spring for claw mounts if they fit the bill.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Win M70 Classic Safari Express x2 [Re: taw1126]
      #139833 - 31/07/09 09:59 PM

The Warne mounts are not designed to be a "see through" mount, if that's what you are asking about. You have to remove the scope to use the irons.

Now, if you are asking whether the bases are low enough to see the sights when the scope is removed, the answer is YES. No problem accessing the iron sights with the scope off.

In this photo, looking at the bottom rifle, you can plainly see that the scope bases are well below the island base of the rear sight.



Yeah, Winchester outdid themselves with the M70 Classic Safari, their last iteration of the big bore M70. The value of these will "improve with age."

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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taw1126
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Re: Win M70 Classic Safari Express x2 [Re: CptCurl]
      #139840 - 01/08/09 01:32 AM

Quote:

Now, if you are asking whether the bases are low enough to see the sights when the scope is removed, the answer is YES. No problem accessing the iron sights with the scope off.
Curl


That's waht I was asking. The island base on your Classic is much, much taller than the integral boss on the standard pre-'64 barrel, so I can see why I'd have problems and you wouldn't.

The African Express has a different rear sight; I'll have to see if the Warnes work when it gets here (bought one in .416 RM today...told you I was close to buying one!).

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bebo
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Re: Win M70 Classic Safari Express x2 [Re: taw1126]
      #241513 - 31/01/14 05:32 AM

Yes !!
I have a Winch 70 Safari Express .375 H&H scoped with Leupold VarII 3-9x40 Zero @190yds (270grs)
and a Winch 70 Safari Express .416 RM scoped with Leupold Var3 1.5-4x20 Zero @100yds (400grs)
But on the range they can do ++

Winch is back !!!

Leupold Var3 1.5-4x20 : for it's important eye relief !!! .416RM is perfect but ... kick ... a few ..

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