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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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RLI
.375 member


Reged: 01/10/03
Posts: 534
Loc: Victoria, Australia
.375 Win. Versus .375 2 1/2" Nitro Express
      #137316 - 15/06/09 10:00 AM

I have a Winchester 94 'Big Bore .375Win. XTR' and remember reading years back a Gun magazine claiming that the .375Win is similar to the .375 2 1/2" Nitro Express, I do not have my Cartridges of the World with me but I would think the 375 2 1/2" would be a bit more powerful but with handloads could the 375Win duplicate the .375 2 1/2" Nitro Express?

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"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." — John Wayne

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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: .375 Win. Versus .375 2 1/2" Nitro Express [Re: RLI]
      #137761 - 22/06/09 11:54 AM

I don't think so. I don't recall seeing the article, but sounds like the author perhaps wasn't very familiar with the .375 2 1/2" NE.

The .375 Win is a much smaller case. Length is 2.020" and base diameter is .420". The .375 2 1/2" NE is 2.5" in length, and the base diameter is .459".

The .375 Win will drive a 250 grain bullet to 1,900 fps within pressure spec. CIP MAP for the .375 Win is 4,400 BAR/63,816 PSI. SAAMI MAP was 52,000 CUP.

The .375 2 1/2" NE standard load drives a 270 grain bullet to 1,975 fps, and does it at half the pressure of the .375 Win. CIP MAP for the NE is 2,200 BAR/31,908 PSI. This cartridge was also commonly loaded with a 300 grain at 1,900 fps.

The .375 Win is extremely high pressure for a lever rifle to begin with. I don't think the difference can be picked up without dangerous pressure levels.

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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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RLI
.375 member


Reged: 01/10/03
Posts: 534
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: .375 Win. Versus .375 2 1/2" Nitro Express [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #137766 - 22/06/09 12:58 PM

The only similarity (pressure aside) is the .375Win using 250g @1900fps and the .375 2 1/2" using 270g @ 1975fps this is as close as the .375Win can get (factory loads)I would think. There is always some write ups wanting to compare American lever action cartridges to British Double/Single cartridges the latest one is the .405Win to the .450/.400-3" .

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"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." — John Wayne

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: .375 Win. Versus .375 2 1/2" Nitro Express [Re: RLI]
      #137778 - 22/06/09 10:54 PM

Most .375 Win loads are shot thru rifles with short barrels. Those factory loads I've read chronographed thru the common rifle barrel lengths often don't make it much faster than 1800 fps. At acceptable pressures, the heavyweights in .375 Win are running at the fringe of adequate expansion velocities. A friend who owns one of the very handy, well-balanced Marlins has experienced some poor bullet performance on deer with his rifle. Overall, the .375 Win was not the best-designed cartridge IMO. It could be shot in a .38-55 {not good} and really didn't make the best of what the rifles were capable of handling. Maybe Winchester wanted to be able to make use of .30-30 cartridge tooling and didn't want to make feed modifications to the rifle?

If they wanted a .375, a much better round IMO would have been the .444 case necked down to .375, with a fairly sharp shoulder. Such a round would be similar to the .375 JDJ {w/ shorter OAL for the levergun actions} and, funny enough, would have gotten pretty close in a light carbine to what the .375 2 1/2 does in a rifle.

A Marlin .45-70 could be rebarreled to factory OAL .38-56 or a modern improved version and very good ballistics obtained. In fact, such a round should outdo the .375 2 1/2 and approach .375/06 performance, at least fairly close and would be a real peach for those who like traditional levers.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .375 Win. Versus .375 2 1/2" Nitro Express [Re: 9.3x57]
      #137864 - 24/06/09 07:50 AM

My 20" Winchester makes an easy 2,300fps with 220gr. I have driven 270's to 1,960fps with good accuracy and without excessive pressure - by measurements - normal for all factory dup. loads from manuals - one must use the correct powder is all.

With a 24" barrel, that ammo would probalby exceed 2,000fps by a tich.
More speed from this round is not necessary. In both 1981 and 82 I shot a moose with my wife's .375 Big Bore, '94. The load was a soft pressure 42gr. H335, CCI250 primer with a 220gr Hornady for a sedate 1,940fps. The cow took 1 1/2 steps and fell dead, the other, the bull, ran 4 steps and fell dead. Both were lung shot although the cow's bullet went through one shoulder as well, to stop in the other, however, 1 shot each was suffice.

Is the .375 Win. as good as the .375 2 1/2"? - don't care - seems it will match the velocity of the factory 2 1/2" , but there are no 270gr. bullets from North American suppliers suitable for these low speeds.

Whether the .375 Win. makes double the 2 1/2" pressures - another moot point - doesn't matter. With my loads, both hunting and maximun, the brass seems indestructable and is long lived - haven't lost one yet - been loading and shooting it since 1978 - probably better lived than the brass is for the 2 1/2" - don't know, doesn't matter. I use 30/30 brass blown out to .375" for my hunting loads - works perfectly at the moderate pressures I normally shoot and with so much once-fired .30/30 brass at the range here, it's an endless supply. When hunting, I just let them fly, no need to pick them up - they're free.

9.3x57 - I like your idea of the Marlin chambered for the .38/56 IMP. The capacity would be over 70gr. and exceed the .9.3x62 and approach the .375/06IMP, both at 78gr. capacity. I mean it would exceed the 9.3x62 factory 286gr. ammo, but be short of modern-type handloads in either of these '06 based rounds. Yes, I know the 9.3x62 is not an '06 based round, BUt - brass can be safely made for either round using .30/06 brass.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Fritz
.224 member


Reged: 13/04/03
Posts: 34
Re: .375 Win. Versus .375 2 1/2" Nitro Express [Re: DarylS]
      #139932 - 02/08/09 11:27 PM

A Barnes Original FN 255grs bullet from my Win 94BB leaves the muzzle with about 2070 fps. It is fast enough to make the gun legal for moose here in Scandinavia.

Fritz

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