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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
First rifle choice for a daughter
      #137308 - 15/06/09 09:49 AM

I know, I know - I'm a father at an age when most men are grandfathers, but I now have a 3 month old daughter and need to plan her first rifle. I have the following choices and would like the advice of friends here on what would be the better first rifle for her. Since I plan to gift the rifle to her on her 5th birthday, I have some time to get either choice ready. Thanks for all opinions / suggestions in advance.

1. I have a Brno No 2 action that has never been barreled and is mint. Should I build a 17 HM2 on it?

2. I have a Winchester 69-A Target model factory fitted with a Lyman sight. There is some wear on the rifle and the metal needs polishing and rebluing. I could wither get it restored or enhanced with a new stock and metal embellishment. I have been told that this is a rare rifle in the target version and that it is worth significantly more than the regular 69-A. Should I keep it for myself or get it redone for my daughter?

Which would be the better choice? I have pictures but have stupidly misplaced the camera cord and can't buy one until tomorrow as today is a Sunday. Will do that asap, but, in the meantime, please do offer your suggestions.

Good hunting, everyone!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: First rifle choice for a daughter [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #137327 - 15/06/09 11:03 AM

Mehul-


My daughter turns four years old next month.
Her favorite rifle (since she was just about a year old) is a full-stock fur trade (replica) light 50 caliber flint rifle that had belonged to my late father.
I haven't built anything specifically for the kids yet.
They're pretty happy with what we have laying around the house most of the time.
I do like the idea of the fifth birthday gift though...


Talk to our friend Mr Zihn and see if he can swing your selection process over to flint and charcoal!





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2437
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: First rifle choice for a daughter [Re: tinker]
      #137330 - 15/06/09 11:50 AM

Earlier today I to put the Daughter and my 14 year old Granddaughter on the plane and sent them back to Illinois. They have been here for the past two weeks. I really enjoyed the time I got to spend with my graddaughter. I am sad seeing the little kid grow up, but I can see she is going to become a lovely young women.

I started her the right way with a rifle that is accurate and would not hurt her. I let her shoot my BSA Martini 1215 17 hornady Mach 2. We went out gopher hunting 4 times. Between the two of use we fired just over 1000 rounds; 500 in one outing.

You can't go wrong with 17 HM 2. The no recoil, no noise and good accuracy will allow her to develop good shooting skills and confidence. Then as she grows so can the rifle. Either combination you suggested should work fine.

Word of warning however, towards the end of the week My Granddaughter was referring to my rifle as her rifle.



Oh yeah besides teaching her how to shoot I put her behind the wheel for the first time in her life. We got to a gate and I told her gopher hunting you either drive or open gates. She couldn't get the gate open and I didn't drive the rest of the week.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: First rifle choice for a daughter [Re: DoubleD]
      #137333 - 15/06/09 12:33 PM

First, Mehul, the best of congratulations to you and your wife! What can I say...bravo!

Great thread! Girls with guns. Varmint 'vaporatin', too!

DD, your G-daughter is going to have a hoot of a time back in...Ill-Annoy...telling all the boys about the varmint busting! HA!

I got my daughters going on a Ruger 10/22 and MK2 pistols and a CZ527 in 7.62x39, but both have taken a shine to Ruger M77MKII's for deer killing, and both have, killed deer. My oldest daughter used the 527 on her first deer, then I sold it and she gravitated to the MKII. My youngest used the MKII for her first deer last year.

Oh, forgot...in 6.5x55 cal.

Is there another caliber option?? I think not.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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bigmaxx
.375 member


Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: First rifle choice for a daughter [Re: 9.3x57]
      #137382 - 16/06/09 02:12 AM

I would stick with a .22lr myself.

--------------------
One day at a time...

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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3556
Loc: Colorado
Re: First rifle choice for a daughter [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #137387 - 16/06/09 05:32 AM

The 69A is a good choice but I prefer the original Model 69 with the knob safety on the bolt.
Also, they shoot .22 shorts, long and long rifle. With the price of shorts so high nowdays, one box as a warm-up/teaching load should be sufficient.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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michaelj
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Reged: 02/06/09
Posts: 26
Loc: Lakewood, Colorado US
Re: First rifle choice for a daughter [Re: Huvius]
      #137395 - 16/06/09 07:23 AM

That 69A would be a wonderful first rifle and as you have a little time before gifting it to her I would definetly be considering re-stocking and rust bluing. I would find a nice piece of walnut and stock it in a classic style such as an Griffin and Howe or English Sporting rifle. I would leave the peep sight on and that 69A is a tack driver. When I find another that is exactly what I will be doing for my Daughter. By the way you will have to sight it in and make sure everything is good to go only problem is when you get done you may not want to give it up.
Just a thought

And congratulations on the birth of your Daughter. You have a wonderful future.

Michael J

Edited by michaelj (16/06/09 07:27 AM)

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John303
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Reged: 16/11/06
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Re: First rifle choice for a daughter [Re: michaelj]
      #137402 - 16/06/09 12:10 PM

Not to start any dispute but personally I started out with a BB gun at about 6/7 with the occasional 22 shoot under supervision until about 12 and progressed from there. The responsibility of the BB gun and the practice it provided I would say was a valuable experience for my later years. The BB gun vs. something more powerful and noisy is not so daunting / expensive that a lot of practice and technique can be gained by the novice IMHO. The goodies (bigger / better) can come later should the child show an interest in the shooting sport(s). --- John 303.

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Farhan
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Reged: 31/01/07
Posts: 52
Loc: Pakistan
Re: First rifle choice for a daughter [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #137411 - 16/06/09 03:42 PM

Mehel i am on the same postion like you only diffrence is my daughter going to celebrate her first birthday tommorow.
I have bought one 410 dbbl shotgun by william evens for her when she was two months.
In hand guns she naver let my any handgun go without complete inspection in her own way and her fav is my glock 19 gold edtion and sig 228
For her first rifle i got sako quad

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WyoJoe
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Reged: 18/02/04
Posts: 234
Loc: Cheyenne, WY USA
Re: First rifle choice for a daughter [Re: Farhan]
      #137464 - 17/06/09 11:37 PM

Mehul,
You are starting down a slippery slope. I started taking my daughters hunting with me when they were potty trained. The oldest graduated college in Dec. 2007 and for her graduation present wanted a Kimber Pro Target II. She got it.

Ditto on the 22rf for your's.

--------------------
There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor polite, nor popular -- but one must ask, "Is it right?"

Martin Luther King, Jr.

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: First rifle choice for a daughter [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #137520 - 19/06/09 02:45 AM

Gentlemen,

Thank you very much for your comments and especially for the messages of congratulations on my daughter's birth. Yes, it is somewhat late in the day for me and to a lesser extent for my wife as friends here who have met us know, but we are excited at the hunting and shooting possibilities ahead.

Unfortunately, my Kodak 1273 will only let me upload pics to the Kodak Gallery at the moment and not to my PC for some reason. I hope to sort the problem with picture uploads shortly and post them here.

Tinker,

I will buy a rifle from Steve but it will be for myself. I do live in a shotgun and ML only state and he does make some of the most beautiful MLs out there. Sending you a PM after this.

DoubleD,

Beautiful pics! Can't wait for my little girl to be as old as your granddaughter, though that would make me considerably older than I already am. There's something about fathers / grandfathers and girls hunting and shooting together, isn't there?

9.3x57,

Thanks. Hope to move out of Ill-Annoy asw soon as I sell my house - and I know its not going to be easy in the present economy. Bad!

BigMaxx,

The 69 A is a 22 lr and it is very accurate though the metal needs refinishing and it could do with a better stock than the heavy target stock that it has on at the moment. I also have a Marlin 60 in 22 lr and have just told a friend that I shall be buying a WInchester 52 that he is selling . . . The idea of building a 17 HM 2 on the Brno action is because it would be a little different and since I don;t have any rifles in that caliber.

Huvius,

I don't have a 69 unfortunately, but I do have a 69 A that is nice though it is heavy as it is the target model. Haven't tried 22 shorts in it but I have a huge quantity of 22 lr ammo and I do get that cheap from Fleet Farm in Appleton or Kenosha when I visit Wisconsin.

Michaelj,

Thanks for the suggestions, but should I spend so much money now when my daughter will outgrow any work that I may do if I take the full blown custom route? She will get this at just 5.

John303,

I want my girl to learn to use a rimfire because I am nto personally sure that a BB gun teaches kids to shoot well . . . Just my experience as I started shooting a 22 lr at 9 back in the days when Moses wore shorts.

Farhan,

I'm not much of a shotgunner myself - have two cased A-5s which I shoot pheasants with. A Watson Bros gun from Michael Louca won't be my option unless I win the Powerball. And two handguns - both 38 revolvers, one Iver Johnson and one Colt Detective Special. Not sure that I want my girl to start shooting a handgun over a rifle, though - just an old rpejudice, I guess.

WyoJoe,

Good to hear from you after a long time, my friend. Congratulations to your daughter on a fantastic choice - if my daughter asks me for a rifle when she graduates, I'll die a happy man.

Thanks, everyone, again, for your suggestions. My daughter will get all my guns when it is time for me to go. That said, I have some ideas now thanks to all suggestions here and shall post the pics as soon as I can along with my final decision. I am really grateful to everyone who posted here and to anyone who will post in the future.

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: First rifle choice for a daughter [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #137522 - 19/06/09 02:56 AM

Quote:

Unfortunately, my Kodak 1273 will only let me upload pics to the Kodak Gallery at the moment and not to my PC for some reason. I hope to sort the problem with picture uploads shortly and post them here.



Although I don't know the correction for the Kodak problem, I do know a "workaround." The Kodak software will allow you to email the photos to yourself, and you can then save them to your hard drive.

Take care, Tom

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: First rifle choice for a daughter [Re: Tatume]
      #137525 - 19/06/09 03:06 AM

Thanks, Tom.

If I can't upload the pics directly, I shall do as you have advised. Hope to do this this evening or tomorrow.

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: First rifle choice for a daughter [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #137543 - 19/06/09 07:02 AM

Still can't figure out how to save the pictures from the Kodak Gallery to my PC - sometimes, this proprietary stuff is a real pain, but a slideshow of the action, of the 69A and of my little girl trying to crawl for the first time can be viewed here.

Good hunting, everyone!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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michaelj
.224 member


Reged: 02/06/09
Posts: 26
Loc: Lakewood, Colorado US
Re: First rifle choice for a daughter [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #137598 - 20/06/09 04:09 AM

Mehul,
My thoughts are to do the rifle as I said and use the existing stock as the trainer and she can grow with it. My thought and this applies to me and not neccisarily yourself is that I don't know when my time will come hopefully not for many years as I am not that old (55) but I wanted my daughter to have something that would always remind her of me and our times together The 69 works into a nice adult sized gun and it is something I know my daughter will always cherish.
Whatever you decide the thinking about it and the planing are almost as much fun as the doing.
Good luck in your endeavor.

Michael J

Edited by michaelj (20/06/09 04:10 AM)

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450_EXPRESS
.333 member


Reged: 04/01/09
Posts: 349
Loc: S.C.Montana
Re: First rifle choice for a daughter [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #137704 - 21/06/09 12:14 PM

Mehul; Congratulations on your daughter. It's amazing how quickly they get that "Daddy's little girl" thing down. I think it must be an instinct. Plus they're really great at tax time!

I'm in a similar situtation, I'm 51, my oldest (a son) just turned 7 last month. My daughter is 5 1/2. I've had them in the woods since they were babies. Also fishing and hunting (sitting for whitetails) when the weather is nice. Now the boy is bugging me to let him shoot a real gun "even a 22 they're real right?". We had a gun show here last weekend and those Crickets caught their eye. Pink stock for a girl and black for a boy "those would be cool right?" I passed, figured what they like at five and seven won't fly when they'rre fifteen and seventeen. Plus I think I need another double, something I can scope, so I'm keeping my eyes open for a good deal on a Chapuis or Merkel or such and hate to spend much on other things right now. Too,. like I tell the wife "it's an investment for the kids one day". I use that line whenever I can.

What you might want to think about with the 69 is to get another stock. Either an old beat up one or a new replacement (I see one on Gunbroker for $70). Take the second stock and shorten it and maybe splice in some wood at the grip for her hand to fit better (at five they're still small funny little beings). It will still be a bit barrel heavy for her but from a rest it'll work and the stock will fit her. When she grows just put the original stock back on. And then she'll have a nice unaltered rifle.

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RHB
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Re: First rifle choice for a daughter [Re: 450_EXPRESS]
      #138082 - 27/06/09 02:36 AM

Mehul,

Sorry for the late reply but I have had other things on my mind.

You could buy Mehar the most expensive rifle on earth or have it customised by the best gunsmith but neither option would mean as much to her as having a gun that 'daddy made for me'. Not only will she cherish it but you can be certain it will get passed down to her children.

Now, I know you have been meaning to learn a bit of amateur gunsmithing and I cannot think of a better reason to do so. You also have a lot of time to make something exceptional.

You can forget about a 5 year old shooting a heavy target rifle, except from a bench or some such support. It may not work and if frustration sets in you will end up driving her away from the sport.

What you present her with and what you start her off with needn't necessarily be the same thing. I agree with John303 about starting her off with a BB gun. Something like a Daisy Red Ryder would be ideal. If the rifle isn't a tack driver make the targets bigger and/or the ranges shorter. What is important is that they must thoroughly enjoy themselves (they love reactive targets rather than shooting at paper) and feel a great sense of achievement. At 5 years old she isn't going to understand the sentiment behind your presenting her with a super custom rifle. By all means make one or have one made but start her off with something she can easily use. Even a pop-gun if it comes to that.

Here's a pic of Shubaair and Shane with the air-rifles I cobbled up for them during their recent summer vacation. Shubaair who was never interested in shooting is the exact opposite once he started hitting the tin cans consistently.

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: First rifle choice for a daughter [Re: michaelj]
      #138185 - 29/06/09 02:56 PM

Michael J,

I agree with your entiments completely. I decided some time ago that I would never sell any of my guns and that they would go to someone whom I wanted to have them - now I have someone to leave them for. I can't wait for my daughter to grow up and start shooting and hunting with me. May it happen soon!

450 Express,

Thanks for the suggestion. I missed the Gunbroker stock somehow - was away and didn't check in here. I'll keep an eye open for one and do as you suggest. The 69 A is a target model and is quite heavy - almost as heavy as my 8mm Mauser sporter and heavier than my 30-06 without its scope. She will have to shoot it off a bench.

I did toy with the idea of buying a pink Crickett rifle but gave it up and have since been looking at the two options that I posted here about. Yes, I will keep the original stock on the 69 A but am hoping to get the rifle reblued and touched up a lttle as it has seen some bad years as you can see in the pics.

Rustam,

If I had your skill with my hands, I would definitely try to build something for Mehar myself. The problem is that I clearly don't and I can't delude myself into believing that I do. I just don't want to give my girl something that she accepts because she wants to be polite and because Dad built it.

My only worry about BB guns is their terrible accuracy as you point out yourself. They are all right for teaching gun safety etc but not good at all for learning to shoot IMHO. Yes the 69 A is heavy and it will need a rest as several friends have pointed out. Will try 450 Express' suggestion and see if that wrks. FOrtunately, I have more than a little time as Mehar is just 4 months old.

Love the smiles on Shubair and Shane's faces. You guys have to come here and visit us.

Thanks everyone and good hunting, gentlemen!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
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Re: First rifle choice for a daughter [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #138214 - 30/06/09 12:36 AM

Mel - it depends on the game you're going to be hunting with her.
Mine wasn't the least interested until later on in her late teens, so I built her a .260 Rem on a 1950 FN Mauser action. She loves the rifle and shoots it as a champ - she had never fired a rimfire before and only a few rounds of .22 Hornet prior.
Although I'd have preferred to hunt with her from early on, it just doesn't happen - but later is much preferred to never - I enjoy hunting with her so much, I've decided not go to guiding camp this year, preferring to hunt with her instead.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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RHB
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Reged: 06/02/05
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Re: First rifle choice for a daughter [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #138221 - 30/06/09 04:01 AM

Quote:

Love the smiles on Shubair and Shane's faces.



And that, me mucker, is precisely the point I wanted to make with that photo. It must be enjoyable! She will enjoy shooting off the bench (bloody good for learning sight alignment and trigger control) until such time as she sees her friends plinking away free hand and not being stuck in one place. She sure as hell wont be able to join them with that heavy rifle.

So, get her a light, easy to use rifle/air-rifle to start with until such time as she is old enough to use the heavier guns.

Quote:

If I had your skill with my hands, I would definitely try to build.....



Skill is acquired. What is required is elbow grease, patience and the yearning for a job well done. Believe me, you can do a superlative job if you really want to. Besides which, rimfires are far easier to work on than air-rifles.

I have never seen a Daisy Red Ryder or similar sub-junior airgun but I am reasonably certain it could achieve minute of tin can rather than the oil drum you seemed to be worried about.

Rustam

P.S.: Should Mehar decide that shooting is not her cup of Horlicks, I am willing to look after your guns.

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: First rifle choice for a daughter [Re: RHB]
      #138716 - 09/07/09 11:11 AM

Rustam,

Will get an air rifle for her - let's see how that goes. I'll try to work on the 69 A but if I feel that I am not doing a good job, off it will go to a gunsmith. A friend in Texas has some mesquite wood for me from his property (where we had invited you guys some time ago - there's a hint there, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, ) and I'm going to use it for building a rifle on the Brno action.

WIll post pics here as the work gets underway - hopefully, I'll do well if nothing out of fear of embarassing myself on a forum that is full of immensely talented people.

Best wishes and a big hug to the two young men,

Mehul

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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RHB
.300 member


Reged: 06/02/05
Posts: 136
Loc: India
Re: First rifle choice for a daughter [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #138723 - 09/07/09 01:02 PM

Now we are talking. Just make sure the efforts are a lot more sincere than your past efforts at angling.

I read the reviews on the Daisy Red Ryder on Cabelas and apparently they aren't as well made (were they ever?) now.

Will look around for a good children's air-rifle and get back to you.

P.S.: I'd start her off with a pop-gun and teach her gun safety with that before graduating to a BB or pellet gun. All the best!

Edited by RHB (09/07/09 01:06 PM)

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