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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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VonGruff
.400 member


Reged: 08/02/09
Posts: 1119
Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: 500 Jeffery at the range, finally [Re: chuck375]
      #140762 - 18/08/09 09:30 PM

Chuck, I was reading this post on a 505 and 404 stock and saw grain similarities on the 404 stock that split through the wrist. Take a look at this post on Accurate reloading.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/2891096411


The suguestion here and elsewhere is to epoxy a rod in through the wrist from the butt if that is the only axcess. Would hate to see such a nice stock damaged.

Von Gruff.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: 500 Jeffery at the range, finally [Re: chuck375]
      #140764 - 18/08/09 11:54 PM

Chuck, a really spectacular piece of wood and a great project!! Glad it is coming along.

von Gruff;

Somewhere back in the archives is a thread I started about this very topic and IIRC. CZ's seem to have the grain flowing like that very commonly {my 9.3 shows a little more end grain at the back of the wrist than I like}. On CZ's, the grain seems to often run perpendicular to the recoil shoulders {max strength there} but then runs out at the wrist.

By contrast, for example, old HVA stocks seems purposefully and carefully laid out to angle the grain thru the wrist to provide maximum strength there tho that means the grain frequently runs at an angle to the recoil shoulder. {HVA's are know for splitting, but normally that occurs at the tang due to bedding problems}. Ruger rifles seem well laid, sort of "averaged" between the two. I have never seen a Ruger cross-grained at the wrist, but then, I've never seen a Ruger with truly spectacular wood tho I have seen some with nice "standard".

A look at Speed's Mauser book shows a variety of stocking up on Original Mausers that suggests some variation. On page 420 is a picture of a .416 Rigby-Mauser restocked by David Miller that shows a clearly crossgrained wrist with almost no flowthu to the butt.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
Posts: 1119
Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: 500 Jeffery at the range, finally [Re: 9.3x57]
      #140769 - 19/08/09 06:17 AM

9.3x57, it is a lovely stock and a great looking rifle. There are obviously ways arround the use of a stock that some of us would be wary of using, and it was because I have built a couple of stocks for over 40 bores that it cought my attention. I have payed particular attention to the wrist as I like it reasonably slim, although with 2 cross bolts and a second recoil lug with an internal cross bolt I can get away with it.

+1 on Jn 3.16

Von Gruff.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

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chuck375
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Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: 500 Jeffery at the range, finally [Re: VonGruff]
      #140861 - 20/08/09 09:14 PM

Thanks Von Gruff, I plan to have my gunsmith do a few tweaks to the rifle over the winter. I will bring this to his attention.

Thanks again,

Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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chuck375
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Reged: 13/10/07
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Re: 500 Jeffery at the range, finally [Re: chuck375]
      #149432 - 04/01/10 09:08 AM

Hi all, got back from the range. I loaded 6 sets of 3: 101g, 103g and 105g H4895. One set to shoot from the lead sled one set to shoot off hand. All loads seated one groove deeper to a COL of 3.63" I shot for groups at only 25 yards because we had some wind blowing (and it was cold) and with my 1.5 - 5x Leupold at 5x I can make sure my hold is pretty close to identical each shot.


So here goes:

Rifle CZ Safari Classic 500 Jeffery, 24" McGowen Barrel. Bullet: 570g TSX, Jamison Brass, Rem 9 1/2M primers, COL 3.63 for all loads. All groups 3 shot groups from 25 yards off of a lead sled with 25 lbs. Range temperature 35 degrees.

101g H4895 velocity 2080 fps average variance about 30 fps from shot to shot 3 shot group at 25 yards from a lead sled. Recoil was fine offhand fun index high. 3 shot group measured 7/8" edge to edge so .375" center to center at 25 yards, so approx 1.5" center to center at 100 yards.




103g H4895 velocity 2175 fps average variance less than 10 fps from shot to shot 3 shot group at 25 yards from a lead sled. Recoil was fine offhand fun index still high. 3 shot group measured 5/8" edge to edge so .125" center to center at 25 yards so approx .5" center to center at 100 yards. Based on the accuracy, velocity and recoil I think this is my load until those darn .510 caliber 570g or 600g North Fork Soft Points come out!



105g H4895 velocity 2280 fps average variance 40 fps from shot to shot 3 shot group at 25 yards from a lead sled. Recoil was getting stiff offhand, fun index waning rapidly. Lead sled rose up from the bench with each shot. 3 shot group measured 13/16" edge to edge so .1875" center to center at 25 yards so approx .75" at 100 yards.




Sorry if this post was too long,

Best Regards,

Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

Edited by chuck375 (04/01/10 09:09 AM)

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meticman
.224 member


Reged: 22/08/09
Posts: 30
Loc: calif
Re: 500 Jeffery at the range, finally [Re: chuck375]
      #149440 - 04/01/10 01:21 PM

Interesting, I will be interested to see this repeated at 100 yards.

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chuck375
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Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: 500 Jeffery at the range, finally [Re: meticman]
      #149450 - 04/01/10 02:50 PM

Me too, I'll wait until it's warmer next time out and I'll shoot at 100 and 200 yards. I expect the groups to be more than 4 times larger at 100 yards. If I can consistently group under an 1.5 inchs at 100 yards I'll be happy. I find magnification helps me group better from a rest and 5x isn't much really from a bench even at 100 yards.

Regards,

Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

Edited by chuck375 (04/01/10 02:54 PM)

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chuck375
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Reged: 13/10/07
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Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: 500 Jeffery at the range, finally [Re: chuck375]
      #151108 - 19/01/10 08:09 AM

Hi all, went back to the range to shoot for groups at 100 yards. I switched to Federal 215 primers at Jeffeosso's recommendation since even though my current load of 570g TSX, 103g H4895 is near max by my A-Square manual, case density is still kind of low. Velocity averaged out to 2250 fps (75 fps faster than the same powder charge with my Rem 9 1/2M primers!). I shot two consecutive 3 shot groups at 100 yards.

The first group measured 1.5" center to center including one "flyer" (I definitely pulled it a bit).




The second group measured just under an inch center to center.



The next time I go out, I'll put a 1/2" diameter bright stick on bullseye on the targets since I believe it's my lack of consistency of hold that's opening the groups up. I finished sighting in after shooting these groups and set it at 2" high at 100 yards which puts me dead on at 25 yards and 165 yards and 3" low at 200 yards. All in all I'm happy with this load as good enough to hunt with until North Fork comes out with their 600g Softpoints! I think a North Fork 600g Softpoint at 2300 fps will be sweet.




Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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meticman
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Reged: 22/08/09
Posts: 30
Loc: calif
Re: 500 Jeffery at the range, finally [Re: chuck375]
      #151116 - 19/01/10 09:10 AM

Nice!
I would suspect more than adequate for anything you choose to do.

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chuck375
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Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: 500 Jeffery at the range, finally [Re: meticman]
      #151122 - 19/01/10 10:13 AM

By the way VonGruff, I'm taking the rifle over to my gunsmith, Kevin Weaver, to have a wrist pin inserted as you recommended. It also needs a stronger magazine spring and larger diameter front Hi Vis sight. It's getting there though.



Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27005
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 500 Jeffery at the range, finally [Re: chuck375]
      #151182 - 20/01/10 01:45 AM

A .500 shooting like a varmint rifle - wonderful - I'd be very happy with 2" to 2 1/2" from a big bore.

.30/30's have been killing deer and black bears for well over 100 years now, at ranges up to about 200 yards, yet the average carbine is incapable of shooting 3 shot groups tighter than about 4" at 100 yards with issue sights.

Many of us over-do our accuracy requirements or expectations with our hunting rifles, but to have one that's extremely accurate, well, that builds one's confidence in the rifle, that's for sure.

To consistantly shoot small groups at longer ranges with open sights is a wonderful 'skill'.

There is usually a big difference in shooting capability when using the gun in one's hands, rather than using a mechanical device.

Final zeroing of sights should be done 'in the hands' as many rests give bullet impact not even remotely close to what shooting 'by hand' gives. Even my little .375H&H delivers points of impact 3 1/2" apart with just 2 slightly different bench techniques and both being shot by hand. Introduce a recoil absorbing device and the difference could be much greater, especially with a heavier kicker.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
Posts: 1119
Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: 500 Jeffery at the range, finally [Re: DarylS]
      #151194 - 20/01/10 06:06 AM

You would have to be pleased with that Chuck. I think a lot of people are surprised how well a lot of big bores will shoot. I use the Fed 215 as well and picked up a bit of velocity over the WLRM I had initially used. As mentioned above while it may not be strictly necessary for an efective hunting rifle, it is certainly gratifying, and gives more confidence for the somewhat smaller than Buff/Ele sized animals that a lot of us use them on.

Von Gruff.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

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chuck375
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Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: 500 Jeffery at the range, finally [Re: VonGruff]
      #151212 - 20/01/10 12:40 PM

Yes thanks, I'm definitely happy with the accuracy and my recoil tolerance is certainly growning. I always finish sight in without a rest and test it offhand and sitting. No more shooting until I get the wrist pin in though ... I'm going to SCI Reno if the weather permits Thursday morning see you there. I guess the AR group is having a happy hour at the Giraffe Bar on Friday at 3:30, maybe I'll see some of you there.

Thanks again,

Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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