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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns
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Longknife
.333 member


Reged: 17/04/08
Posts: 269
Loc: Illinois
Round balls again
      #136084 - 25/05/09 01:09 AM

Has anyone ever experimented with oversized round balls in a rifled bore gun???...Ed

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Longknife

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tinkerModerator
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Round balls again [Re: Longknife]
      #136090 - 25/05/09 02:58 AM

My 20bore SxS cartridge rifle seems to like ball at about .005" over groove diameter.


What are you loading for and how oversize are you thinking?



Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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gatsby
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Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: Round balls again [Re: tinker]
      #136097 - 25/05/09 04:44 AM

Roland H. "Mr. Eightbore" whose been shooting these old guns since the 60's says the same thing; size your roundballs about .005 over groove diameter.

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



Edited by gatsby (25/05/09 04:45 AM)

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tinkerModerator
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Reged: 12/03/05
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Re: Round balls again [Re: gatsby]
      #136103 - 25/05/09 09:28 AM

Shooting the 16bore WR today with 5-1/2 drams and ball that's a few thou over groove size today seemed to work very nicely!


As the balls are pretty much never perfectly round (but can be very close plus and/or minus a couple or so thou all over the globe) and in the context of wanting to get a good gas seal behind the ball for consistent pressure and velocity, it's good to budget a few thou oversize any way you look at it.
The amount of effort it'll take the charge to swage the ball all the way into the rifling (compared to an undersized ball) is insignificant. The insurance against leading and excessive fouling is very valuable.

Today's shot string was the third time out with this new-to-me rifle.
Previous targets were shot with slightly undersize ball (as it was what I had) and the vertical difference on the target between right and left barrels was greater than today's shooting with oversize ball.
I got the same kind of results with the Purdey and with my other two sixteen bore double rifles.
With the other rifles I'd found that overall (aggregate) accuracy is always best with oversize ball.


This is shooting real black powder, with real wool felt wadding, lubed with a relatively wet lube recipe, over waxed board cup-shaped over-powder cards.





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Longknife
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Reged: 17/04/08
Posts: 269
Loc: Illinois
Re: Round balls again [Re: tinker]
      #136135 - 26/05/09 02:05 AM

I do not have a rifled, breech loading bore gun at the present but was considering re-barreling a 20 ga. Remington rolling block action with a 20 ga rifled barrel. The action is in great shape but sadly someone cut the barrel back to 18 inched years ago. What is the twist on your bore guns? I am going to ream and rifle a 1 1/8 octagon barrel blank and install it on this action. I have not ruled out the possibility of a faster twist shooting a slug either. All options are open, I am fine tuning the rifling bench, and have ordered the barrel blank....

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Longknife

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tinkerModerator
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Round balls again [Re: Longknife]
      #136145 - 26/05/09 07:38 AM

LR-

The rate of twist in the WR is 1/42"
The Purdey has a similar rate of twist.

You could do well with roundball in a 1/60" twist with shallow and wide grooves in the Forsyth style.

I haven't yet run either of these rifles over the full range of the express sights, but hopefully I will in the next couple of months.
That's where I'll know for sure how the loads are doing down range, and how close to the original regulation load I've gotten with my handloads.
My guess is that I'm pretty close.






Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27731
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Round balls again [Re: tinker]
      #136147 - 26/05/09 08:34 AM

Longknife, if you can get any twist cut, I'd personally go for a 70" to 80" twist, .005" to .008" deep and grooves wider than lands - 2:1 if possible.

The slower twists will still stabilize the round balls and shoot with less problems as in leading or stripping.

The 20 bore case will hold a descent powder charge and the more the merrier with large round balls. Faster balls makes for longer point blank range.There is no reason you cannot get upwards of 1,800fps with a 20 bore, maybe more. A point blank of 120 yards would be nice for hunting.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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