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Hunting >> Hunting in Africa & hunting dangerous game

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larcher
.416 member


Reged: 11/01/05
Posts: 2655
Loc: Saverne, Alsace, France
a 70 pounder ele bull taken with the bow
      #135666 - 19/05/09 11:19 PM

On a chat about bowhunting, Aubrey (.458Aubs) in RSA told me about a happy bowhunter who shot a 70 pounder in Zimbabwe with a frontal brain shot.
That's fantatastic news. The hunter Tom Dyer was kind enough to PM me and I suck as many tips as I can from him.

Later this story and pic was aired on another forum and cropped doubts and gibes.

Here is Tom Dyer's reports kindly posted by Aubrey.



REPORT 1

First of all I need to correct my friend JB, I gave him the wrong Kinetic Energy on my bow, I apoligize for that it was my 40 yard mark through the chronograph information in which I lost only 5 fps (242fps)
114.69 was the Kinetic energy at 40 yards, I did this to see what the out most yardage I could take a shot. You need at least 106 # of Kinetic Energy for an elephant or dangerous game ( Thick Skinned only)

The Bow was a Darton PS 2000, I shoot for Darton in the field & Ted Hermans from Darton made me a 100# set of limbs for the bow. No special cams just the 2 1/2 cam that comes on the 2000.
If anyone wants a great set up Call Gabe @ Red Rock Archery in Grand Junction, CO. 970-241-2697
This gentelman is a wizzard at set up with Kinetics & Moment/ a lot of testing was done here with different grain arrows up to 1100 grains.

Set up: Darton PS 2000 Custom @ 98 Pounds
Arrows: Easton Axis Full Metal Jacket dangerous Game Series 18.2 Grains per inch. ( 866 Grains)

Broadheads: German Kenetic 180 Grain two blade
Fletches: Blazer Vanes
Arrow Length 33 1/2 inches

Chronographed @ 247 fps with 866 Grains @ 2 yards out of the bow
Kinetic Energy : (117.345) Speed X speed X weight / Divided by 450240 = Kinetic Energy
Moment: (.9549) 866 Grains divided by 7000 X Weight / divided by 32 fall of gravity = Moment

I made my own arrows with a 30% weight forward effect, sort of like a dart heavier in the front than anywhere else ( SUPER PENETRATION) I did this by attaching the 75 grain insert onto the broadhead along with another 75 grain insert placed into the shaft first with epoxy & then the 180 grain broadhead with the other 75 grain insert attached & epoxied into the shaft. This gives you 330 grains in the first 3 inches of the arrow shaft.
Epoxy approx 5 grains extra. I epoxied threads & all together for a solid tight fix.
No other things were done to the shaft. I will say that after testing other arrows we have found that penetration is best when the arrow shaft is one sixteenth smaller than the ferrule insert for no drag effect coming from the shaft entering the skin no matter what animal you intend to take.
I was told that blazer vanes would not stabilize that heavy of an arrow, NONSENSE, even an 1100 grain arrow flies true. I gained 5 fps taking off 5" vanes. This is huge when trying to increase Kinetic Energy & Moment . The (Two factors for Penetration)
After down loading the film onto a hard dive for editing and viewing the video, this arrow burried all the way to the fletches, a full approx 29 inches of penetration. The Elephant was shocked & took one step back and tried to turn to his right, as he was turning his back end collapsed and flipped over to his right. As I was watching this I thought that the penetration was not that great as he was turning and becoming sort of broadside to me & seeing the arrow sticking out of his skull approx 12", After flipping over & all was done instantly and observing all that went on, my broadhead broke at the ferrule from the impact at the shaft.
In inspecting all that happened on film in slow motion, as he started to turn you can see the full penetration of the arrow, but when his head came up the shaft came out about 8 inches or so. The picture you see is (AS IS) where the shaft came to rest, only went back in 4 inches or so. After pictures & interviews on film the shaft came out easily with no broadhead attatched, severed at the end of the shaft. I guess I didn't epoxy this one as well as I thought. Along with this the knock was out approxametly 1/8 " and bent 20% or so from the shock of stopping. This happens when an arrow comes to an abrubt stop. The broadhed only entered the brain an inch or so, but just enough.
On another note, on the third day of my hunt, we went to another camp where I saw a dry elephant skull. I asked my PH if I could take a shot at it , if it was alright, he had no problem with this at all. After setting up the video camera, and taking a side brain shot at the skull from 30 yards. I entered the skull 3" in front of the ear hole. This was a 90# elephant skull that was hard & dry, not like a live elephant which is softer when alive, so penetration is tougher this way. I have on video the penetration going through 10" of skull & through the brain cavity and almost to the other ear hole.
My intention was not to brain shoot this elephant, but to take him through the heart. After one mock charge at 30 yards & finally turning and going behind a tree, he came out at 20 yards on the other side of us going left, the camera man stood up and the elephant saw him and squared up to us at 18 yards. My PH whispered to me that you better do something , this big guy is going to come quickly, so I told him I will try to take him frontal. I was all ready for a side brain shot if nessescery,due to the experiment that we did earlier, but I had no choice. I will say that I took a hippo at 42 yards 2" under the ear for a side brain shot with the same bow , but different arrows and broadheads. This bow is awesome and have shot Darton bows for some 15 years.
Yes I have now finally taken all dangerous seven big game animals in Africa, & believe that I am the first to do so with a bow.
For all the skeptics out there, the video on all seven will be edited hopefully by the end of the year in a two part DVD series, on which I will try to market at that time. If not, it makes no difference to me , as I have finally fullfilled my dream to do these things with a stick and a blade, My journey is complete at this time!!!!!!!! It will be worth waiting for! These animals are truely trophy class, some world records as they have been scored but not submitted as of yet.

Thanks again JB & Aubry for your support & friendship
JB,I appreciate your sencerity of not releasing my name until I was aware. I commend you for that and Aubry as well!!!!!!!!!!!!

TOM DYER, Grand Junction, Colorado
PS, A Rhino is twice as tough as an Elephant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was going to send a picture of all seven dangerous game animals but I have decided to hold back all photos of everything else until the DVD comes out.
I will release all other photos at the proper time.

Best Regards Tom Dyer


REPORT 2

Aubry, after reading all the comments listed, I will say a few facts of my own.

1.) Arrow angle/ when an elephant has his head high, a hunter should take him somewhere in the second rinkle of the trunk, but when finally lowering his head for an all out charge approximatly 4" above the eyes squarely in the center would be correct. as you see whatever angle this arrow ended up in as was told the broadhead severed with the threads still in the insert.( This elephant had his head high confronting us.
2.) Penetration/ I shot a cape buffalo at 47 yards with the same bow, but different arrows & broadheads 2 years ago. Entering the chest just under the chin, taking out the top of the heart & some lungs the broadhead was sticking out the right cheek of his butt. ( Now that's Penetration) Try that with a bullet/ expandable or solid! Along with this a Hippo at 42 yards 2 inches under the right ear, with a total brain shot but after 9 days of waiting in a blind where these hippos like to sun themselves & no action that was all I had at the time.
3.)Also, if you read the posting I sent, I have on film penetration on a dry 90# elephant skull at 30yards that suprised me as well from a side angle with total penetration through the brain and beyond.
4.) If you are wondering if this is true or not you have missed it , it was televised for some 5 showings on the Outdoor Channel this last summer for TNT Outdoor Adventures. Hippo, Sable and Cape Buffalo.( Believe IT)
Contact Todd Cast from TNT Outdoor Adventures, he was there & used his film crew for the show!
5.) I have hunted with a bow since I was 14 years of age and am now almost 55 and have hunted all over the world with my bow taking some of the finest trophies possible.
6.) I did not ask for recognition in this or other cases and (DID NOT POST THIS PICTURE) so for people that want to put up money to bet this is not the case, go find your own dream mine is over.............................
7.) Thanks to all, JB Renz & Aubry & for the appoligizes I have received, I appreciate it GREATLY!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you think it is still not true come hunt with me personally & bring cash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cordially TOM


PS No more messages will be sent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I wish the forumites here will do him justice.

--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."


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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: a 70 pounder ele bull taken with the bow [Re: larcher]
      #135671 - 20/05/09 12:41 AM

Congratulations and well done on a fine trophy taken the hard way.
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27648
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: a 70 pounder ele bull taken with the bow [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #135686 - 20/05/09 02:38 AM

I agree wholeheatedly - EXCELLENT

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 40598
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: a 70 pounder ele bull taken with the bow [Re: DarylS]
      #135743 - 20/05/09 01:46 PM

Very nice trophy too.

I do find it amazing an arrow will kill an elephant with a frontal shot, penetrating to the brain, but am willing to believe it. The DVDs he says might be coming out will I think sell well and be very interesting.

Amazing animal to hunt with a bow.

I believe our friend here, JB, has similar ambitions and I hope he tests out the scenario one day for us too.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: a 70 pounder ele bull taken with the bow [Re: NitroX]
      #135772 - 21/05/09 01:18 AM

I am going to remain agnostic on this one for the time being. Nice elephant.

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AspenHill
Sponsor


Reged: 08/01/03
Posts: 1528
Loc: Vermont, USA
Re: a 70 pounder ele bull taken with the bow [Re: 500grains]
      #135805 - 21/05/09 10:28 AM

Tremendous bull! Wow, now Dan, you gotta admit the man's arrow did better than a .45-70!

--------------------
~Ann

Everyday spent outdoors is the best day of my life.

Aspen Hill Adventures


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Ndumo
.300 member


Reged: 21/12/03
Posts: 230
Loc: Namibia
Re: a 70 pounder ele bull taken with the bow [Re: AspenHill]
      #135851 - 21/05/09 08:14 PM

Nice bull, but that is a stunt if you have ever seen one in your life.

--------------------
Karl Stumpfe
Ndumo Hunting Safaris (Pty) Ltd.
karl@huntingsafaris.net
www.huntingsafaris.net
+264 811 285 416

Edited by Ndumo (21/05/09 11:32 PM)


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NNS
.224 member


Reged: 26/04/07
Posts: 6
Loc: N. Amer.
Re: a 70 pounder ele bull taken with the bow [Re: 500grains]
      #135924 - 22/05/09 10:03 AM

Quote:

I am going to remain agnostic on this one for the time being. Nice elephant.




Howard Hill killed three with a Long Bow...be agnostic all you want..

http://www.howardhillarchery.com/the-legends-story-3.html


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larcher
.416 member


Reged: 11/01/05
Posts: 2655
Loc: Saverne, Alsace, France
Re: a 70 pounder ele bull taken with the bow [Re: NNS]
      #135964 - 23/05/09 12:22 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I am going to remain agnostic on this one for the time being. Nice elephant.




Howard Hill killed three with a Long Bow...be agnostic all you want..

http://www.howardhillarchery.com/the-legends-story-3.html




115# Longbow, it's incredible.
Imagine the world between 75 and 90# and the dedication required to draw from 90 to 100# with daily exercises.
I doubt that there could be more than 100 people on the planet able to draw 115#.

I understand that one could be agnostic. The energy of a heavy arrow from a 100# has to be seen to be believed.
I botched a shot and my arrow, rigged with a field point, went through an iron tube thru and thru. A solid tube (OD 3.5 cm) that holds the parasol. And the arrow wasn't recovered, keeping enough energy to fly across my garden.
When rigged with a BH, no target can stop it. Only firm ground can.

--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."


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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: a 70 pounder ele bull taken with the bow [Re: NNS]
      #135977 - 23/05/09 04:29 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I am going to remain agnostic on this one for the time being. Nice elephant.




Howard Hill killed three with a Long Bow...be agnostic all you want..

http://www.howardhillarchery.com/the-legends-story-3.html




Not with a frontal brain shot though, did he?


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crkennedy1
.375 member


Reged: 05/12/08
Posts: 501
Loc: Utah
Re: a 70 pounder ele bull taken with the bow [Re: 500grains]
      #135984 - 23/05/09 06:21 AM

Impressive indeed, and that is amazing that yu can drop a jumbo like that. I remember Chuck Adams writing in his personal biography "Life at Full Draw" that he was invited to hunt an elephant as a guest in one of the African countries. Chuck said that upon shooting the jumbo that it turned on him and his tracker and came very close to stomping them to death until his PH finished it off. He went on to say that it was his recommendation that elephants should not be hunted with a bow. Regardless, great shooting - makes me feel like my 70 lb PSE X-Force is nothing but a pea shooter!

Christopher

--------------------
DOUBLE or NOTHING


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